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24.4.2 » One snake, or two?........ » Go to message


Recently, a big part of my jobs is moving towards theatre, big bands and choirs with larger combos. 24 channels just isn't enough anymore: I found myself thinking about combining multiple toms into one channel and/or putting a submixer at the stage. That's fine as a one time hack, but if it's becoming common practice, you need a bigger mixer My current analog snake provides 24 inputs, 8-10 outputs and a few spares (dmx/intercom). So, for a bigger mixer I also need a new snake... %$%$# I just finished the snake!

The requirements are:
- digital
- >=32 channels, >=6 DCA's or subgroups
- >=10 aux/monitor sends
- non-expensive backup in case the desk fails (even via iPad/PC is ok)
- scalable to a small setup would be very nice (e.g. iPad controlled rack solution)
- multi-channel recording/playback
- new snake --> light weight digital
- desk should be live oriented, not for studio work

So, my options were:
- Presonus SL32: not in stores yet, inflexible routing, not enough subgroups, digisnake might take a while...
- Roland M200i: nr of auxes on the edge and digisnake is expensive due to the fact that you need a merge unit for 2 S1608's (only 1 reac port)
- Roland M3x0/4x0: too expensive, 2nd hand M400's don't provide iPad control (only the new M480/M200i does)
- A&H iLive: too expensive
- A&H GLD80: bit expensive, again a another digisnake protocol... I like the iLive design more: processing in the stage rack.
- Soundcraft Compact Si: expensive for what you get, no channel LCDs (Argh, multi layer faders...)
- Soundcraft Expression: price might be right, still no channel LCDs...
- Yamaha: too expensive or don't like them
- Digico/Avid: I would need another mortgage..
- Behringer X32 series: price ok, features ok (maybe even a bit complex with all the layers, busses and matrixes), "Status" NOK? I will put a big sticker on the logo such that only the Midas part is visible. Other downside: the S16's are in backorder (will take multiple weeks!!)
- Did I miss any option in my evaluation?

My opinion: It seems that the X32 fits my application best. In a studio the SL's would be the better option, but live with 32 channels you need features that the SL32 does not seem to offer. The SL16 and SL24 are fine for live work (but not in a theatre) and recording. But again that's my opinion.
StudioLive General Discussion » 32.4.2AI... DUDE!! » Go to message


Oops, 8 pages of comments about subgroups... I touched something here...

Maybe Presonus can shed a light on why they did put only 4 subs on the SL32?
Or, how they intended the subgroups to be used?
Maybe we just don't understand how they intended the board to be used.
StudioLive Forum Community Support » opening studiolive 24 for service » Go to message
Vacuumcleaner?
16.4.2 » 16.4.2 with 6 stereo aux mixes... » Go to message
Do "semi-stereo", that is: give every bandmember the same stereo, overall bandmix and add mono "more me" channels. The HP60 headphone amp of Presonus can do that. You could supply the stereo mix from 2 subgroups and add the mono "more me" using the auxes. The HP60 can mix the stereo and mono signals per headphone out.
StudioLive General Discussion » 32.4.2AI... DUDE!! » Go to message
MarkusHassold wrote:Just one thought:

hm.... needing groups for comps, filters and so on?
But it has the horsepower to give any channel what it needs! Why needing to do in a group?
The situation is not, that there are not enough comps in the siderack, is it?

The issue is that I only have 10 fingers and in practice that is not enough to move e.g. drums up while adjusting vocals. I don't know how you mix, but for me it's not "set and forget": the soundguy is part of the band.
StudioLive General Discussion » 32.4.2AI... DUDE!! » Go to message
My disappointment regarding the nr of subs comes from experience with my SL24. I mix in stereo and if you have a band with ten musicians on stage you want subs (at least drums and vocals). Then, on the SL24 you're already out of subs: no subs left to have fx on a fader.
On an SL32 the need for more (stereo) subs is even bigger. For me the usefullness of the sub faders would be greatly improved if the subs would be stereo. I don't need outputs on all of them, so it should be possible to implement stereo subs in only software. If the subs were meant to be used as delaystack output only, then I don't understand why they spent 4 faders on it.
StudioLive General Discussion » 32.4.2AI... DUDE!! » Go to message
2 disappointments:
- Only 4 MONO subgroups, which was already limiting on the SL24. Presonus, please make the subgroups at least stereo.
- Still no mute buttons on the auxes (at least not on the product image).

Dante: OK! Hope it becomes available for the existing SLs as well.
24.4.2 » Headphones/in-ears amp & beltpacks » Go to message
Maybe thomann.de is willing to ship to the US? They are quite international and have low pricing.

Alternative is to use a Neutrik female xlr to female jack adapter. But then the clip and volume control will be lacking...
BTW: The "box" Fisher-Amps uses is from Neutrik. The only special thing Fisher-Amps added is the stainless steel clip/lid.
24.4.2 » Headphones/in-ears amp & beltpacks » Go to message
These compact Fisher-Amps beltpacks are passive: they do not amplify the signal. It's just 2 connectors and a 1kohm potmeter in a metal box with clip.

There are bigger active (amplifying) beltpacks available from Fisher-Amps (using batteries).

Does this answer your question?
24.4.2 » One snake, or two?........ » Go to message
Jan-Arend Blok wrote:
Big Joe Daddy wrote:Nice! You guys are setting a new standard. A high standard at that. Very professional.



Yeah!!
We Dutch are famous for water-engineering, dykes and snakes hahaha!!!

24.4.2 » Headphones/in-ears amp & beltpacks » Go to message
Hi,

Dutch guys showing off...

I built my own headphones/in-ears amp:


Why did I built my own? I wanted it to fit in the doghouse of my mixer and I didn't want to spend 2 multi channels per set of in-ears. This enables to patch an aux return on the multi as a stereo in-ear channel. The amp has 8 mono inputs, 1 pair of stereo inputs and 8 stereo headphones outputs. Per stereo output the mono input is mixed with the stereo inputs. This enables 8 semi-stereo in-ear mixes using only 10 aux sends. The amp has fixed gain and consists of 8 slightly changed simple C'Moy (DIY) headphones amps.

Volume can be set by the musicians their selves using the volume knob on Fisher-Amps wired beltpacks. So, the headphones signals use the same infra-structure (multi & XLR cables) as a line level signal for a wedge amp.

The Fisher-Amps beltpacks:

24.4.2 » One snake, or two?........ » Go to message
Hi Arend-Jan,

Nice setup. Quite some work... I know

Harting multi-pins can be soldered perfectly. The nice thing about soldering is that you can use used connectors and save a lot of money.

A lot of my jobs use almost use all channels (SL24 is becoming too small ). Some pics below of my multi-pins. This stage box is connected using a 45 meters 36 channel, heavy(!) multi cable. I have another multi cable of 20 meters 24 channels with a fixed REAN stage box which I can plug into the stage box below (as sub-snake on big stages) or directly into the mixer (for smaller setups).

Nice thing of your setup is, that it is scalable and you can put the stage box where you need it (one near drummer and one near e.g. keys). I most often needs sub-snakes. On the other hand my setup is more flexible in patching the channels (which instrument on which channel?). Every setup has it pros and cons. Things to think about if I ever buy another mixer.


StudioLive Forum Community Support » Go ahead, Laugh (help would rock) » Go to message
A 1600dollar laptop. That must be an Apple I hope (with thunderbolt)...
StudioLive General Discussion » Cornings optical thunderbolt cables.... » Go to message
Hey guys,

Why wait for the new StudioLive? ...
Put your StudioLive at the stage, connect an Apple firewire-2-thunderbolt adapter, connect the optical thunderbolt wire, >300feet further on connect your macbook and launch VSL.
StudioLive General Discussion » VSL protocol reverse-engineered... » Go to message
Hey guys,

Jeff did what I was thinking about some time a go. Though he did it for the 1818 instead of the StudioLive: he reverse-engineered the 1818VSL remote protocol. See this topic: http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/32302.page

Probably, the StudioLive VSL uses a very similar protocol... Somebody time to to play around?
This would open a lot of new possibilities, like midi control, etc.

2013, the year of an open VSL protocol?
 
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