image description

Forum Index » Profile for bjornson » Messages posted by bjornson
StudioLive General Discussion » Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16 » Go to message
rnaqvi wrote:Please let me know the order of which you had the board, computer and drive chained.

SUT on the show was Studiolive-Macbook-Drive. I have since tested it with the drive in the middle of the chain with the same results.
I multed low level 30fps non-drop time code to all the inputs of the SL, recorded it, and drove my Euphonix 727 reader with each tracks output.
On average, each track dropped TC 1-3 times per minute for a duration between .5 and 2 seconds.
No track was recorded faithfully.
I'm on NFL / NHL shows for the next 10 days, but I'll try to have an employee repeat this test with a second Mac and the other 2 SL machines.
I can arrange to post any of these files on my FTP server.
Drive and Macbook were also tested with PTLE 8 recording 16 tracks @ 24/48 with no problem.
Hope this helps.
StudioLive General Discussion » Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16 » Go to message
MikeRivers wrote:
bjornson wrote: If a chain of gear works in a short burn in test with multiple starts and stops, but then fails with out changing any piece of the chain, I deem it UNRELIABLE and not fit for professional use.

Was it moved? If so, then you changed something. Many problems with the StudioLive have been traced to an intermittent Firewire connection. I know that people have been using high grade external Firewire drives with Pro Tools and other systems in "professional" applications for quite some time, but there's something about this generation's low budget Firewire connectors that just don't always work reliably. Maybe it's the Chinese material.

I think, though, that the way you've described the problem might be something different. You said that the recorded track files were contiguous, yet had gaps in the audio. Was the mixer being used for PA as well as recording? Or if it wasn't, were you monitoring it? Generally the mixer goes kaflooey when the Firewire connection drops. If it's short term, it'll usually recover without a reboot, but it loses its word clock, and hence loses the audio data during the interim. If you had been listening to the output of the mixer, you would have heard the interruption. Were you? Did you?

I'm also somewhat disturbed by what seems to be a high problem rate, but understand that a forum like this is not a very good sample of the population. Still, even a couple of dozen failures, if they're really failures, isn't very good. Unfortunately, we never seem to hear of a final resolution. In many cases, PreSonus or a dealer replaces a mixer and it's the last we hear from that user. Or they repair it at the factory and the diagnosis and repair is almost never revealed. There seemed to be a rash of defective power supplies early on in the 16-channel version that had a radiated EMI problem, but we've never heard about a faulty chip, bad solder joint, flaky internal cable connection, and so on.

But since the mixer isn't considered to be user serviceable, and there are a lot of competitive manufacturers out there who would be happy to jump on to a problem and use it for their own marketing purposes, I'm not surprised that this is all a bit hush-hush.

Bottom line - If you're the professional that you say you are, you really shouldn't be playing with equipment built and priced for the other end of the working scale. This is not the same industry that builds the Studers. They come remarkably close, and bring some amazing technology to many people who could never afford it 10 years ago, but it comes at a price. If you've found some gear that you like and that's been reliable for you, stick with it.

You may have a problem that can be fixed. Or you may not. But please don't pee in the pool. By the way, I consider myself a professional, too, and I don't own a StudioLive. I'm not willing to accept the compromises I'd have to make in order to work with it, so I'm sticking with what works for me. But I'm interested enough in seeing how it progresses and what "kids these days" are doing with it. There's some good work being done with this mixer by people who don't have the same background and standards as you.

Thanks for the reply Mike,
1) As I stated: the drive, computer and associated cabling have proven themselves over time. The old "don't touch it! It's working now!" has no place in my world. I tested the rest of the chain today without the studiolive and played back a huge PT file with edits and video with no problem.
2) Yes the unit was the FOH mixer as well, and I lost no FOH audio, nor did I experience the "thump-thump" that (shouldn't) occurs in the outputs of the console when you connect the cabling. In my testing when the firewire connection is lost capture drops out of record. All 6 tracks were slightly different lengths with "skips" occurring at different times on different tracks. NO track was recorded accurately.
3) Explain to me how the manufacturers own forum can be considered a faulty pool of users? Seems to me that a forum like this is typically a "love fest" with an inordinate amount of good reviews...
4) I'm not going to argue my credibility/experience with you. I'm simply peeved that a piece of gear doesn't operate as advertised. I have actually publicly defended the sonics of the piece, as I feel it sounds a little better than the LS9, but for me, If it isn't reliable I can't use it in a professional setting. That's not an unreasonable expectation. Manufacturers have no right to use PAYING CUSTOMERS as hardware beta testers. End of story. I feel no shame in "peeing in the pool" by reporting my flaw finding in an open forum. I'll pass on the Koolaid.
StudioLive General Discussion » Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16 » Go to message
bmdenton23 wrote:Just to reiterate what the others are saying, there are an awful lot of us here that have never had any problems recording with the SL16. Having said that I have not found the capture program to be that reliable and so I record with Reaper/Audition on a PC. That was the first version of capture and things may have improved drastically since then.

And this is not meant to take a shot at you at all or dismiss your problem, but if you're running what you call a mission critical application, a 15 minute test just before the show is not really doing your due diligence if you expect professional results.

I ran the SL16 for hours and recorded with multiple programs before I took it out into the field.
There are just too many variables when it comes to digital recording to risk doing a 15 minute test for a mission critical application.

There aren't many professional applications today whether software or hardware that don't themselves require professional testing/attention/understanding before they're used. It's just the world in which we live in.

Give Presonus a chance to fix your problem before you go blasting their products in a forum scaring away potential buyers. I think you'll find Presonus a step above when it comes to support.

Just to respond to your questions,
1st) I didn't say I used the unit for a mission critical application, as I have many other high end tools that I have COMPLETE faith in, and have a track record of impeccable performance on Grammy winning recordings, feature film work and NFL, NHL and MLB broadcasts. I AM however, urging others not to.
This was a grade school Xmas event for my children..... and I had a completely redundant backup recording in place, thank you.
2nd) If a chain of gear works in a short burn in test with multiple starts and stops, but then fails with out changing any piece of the chain, I deem it UNRELIABLE and not fit for professional use. Period. The drive and computer in question are tweeked for AV operation and solid with every other piece of software and hardware I own, which is considerable.
3rd) I bought three of these units to evaluate as I begin to rotate out the 15 or so Yamaha Promix01-03s that I own and have used in Corporate AV for 10+ years without a SINGLE failure. Thats what is required for a piece of equipment to be included in my rental inventory. These units have FAILED that evaluation. I guess I keep buying LS9's....
4th) According to this very forum 23% of owners have had "problems" with their unit. That's almost ONE OUT OF FOUR OWNERS.
If 5% of my customers had "problems" with my products and services, heads would roll.
I look forward to the outcome of my techs evaluation, which includes measuring and verifying the throughput of the Studiolives firewire stream.
Dave Bjornson

StudioLive General Discussion » Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16 » Go to message
On a more humorous note, Take a long look at the photo at the top of the page...
The "guitar player" on the left must of just heard the dropouts in his recording...
The "singer" with the while cap just gave up and is calling his girlfriend as the "studio owner" does the "swear and stare" at the screen,
silently regretting his purchase.
The "engineer" is throwing his hands up in disbelief , wondering why he ever trusted this gear to deliver a quality product to his client.
Now thats harsh!

StudioLive General Discussion » Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16 » Go to message
Maybe harsh for the bedroom but not for a professional application.
I did of course try this setup for a 15 minute test before the 2 hr show.
After doing a little google search this is a known problem.

IMO Presonus needs to step to the plate, admit there's a problem and advise users not to use this piece for mission critical applications until it's resolved.
Mac 2ghz intel os 10.5.6 2gig ram 7200 rpm external usb 2 seagate. This drive has throughput 32 tracks of 24/48 in other applications.
This was 6 freakin tracks!!!
Dropouts all through the recording at different places on different tracks. All WRITTEN to the disk as one CONTIGUOUS FILE.
UNACCEPTABLE. Thankfully I always run redundant recorders.
From Sony 3348 to Tascam 2424 to Protools HD, Studer 2" I've used and owned them all.
My guess is some sort of buffer under-run thats ignored by the Presonus and passed through the stream as a big "whatever".
Add to this the "mute audio during scene change" debacle and you have a real winner here..
This product is MI grade.
I'm going to run time code to all the tracks while in record and diagnose the problem.
If anyone at Presonus cares to look at the results, feel free to PM me.
It's a small world out there in PRO audio, and word gets around..

StudioLive General Discussion » Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16 » Go to message
Multiple 2 second dropouts in the files. None of them line up in Protools.
What an absolute sham of a feature.
Thank God I had a great stereo mix direct to the camera.
I will NEVER trust this unit again, and I have three.
Why oh why didn't I just bring my digi sc48.....
StudioLive General Discussion » Trouble installing capture 1.1 on Intel macbook 2.0 duo/ 10.5.6 » Go to message
File downloads as a file. It refuses to decompress, creating a zip.cpgz file....
Anyone successfully using capture 1.1 and two 16.4.2's to record 32 tracks?
Thanks in advance,
Forum Index » Profile for bjornson » Messages posted by bjornson