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Forum Index » Profile for chrisatrational » Messages posted by chrisatrational
Live Sound » smaart How to? » Go to message
But you can "analyze" your Master Output with the Smaart RTA and Spectrogragh on the GEQ Page in Universal Control. The thing that you have to keep in mind when you are viewing the spectrum tools is that - RTA measurements correlate most to what you are hearing, but to not offer any information about time and what is happening to the signal as it

just a little more info to add to this should you go down this route you should know what is happening:

RTA measurements (single channel analysis) are those which correlate most to the human hearing mechanism. For ex, "what is the spectrum content of signal at a point of your choosing (ie where you put a measurement microphone)". While useful in many mix specific applications, the RTA measurements fall short in room tuning to a more advanced tool - namely the transfer function measurement.

Transfer function (dual channel analysis, known to PreSonus folks as the Room Analysis wizard) measurements compare the signal going in to a system to the signal that comes out. The benefit here is that you can see how the room/system is effecting the source signal as it travels down the wire and eventually comes out of loud speakers; and interacts with the environment. The amount of information garnered from this type of comparative analysis is incredibly beneficial - and indeed essential - to making informed and exact decisions when tuning a system for a venue.


- Chris
16.0.2 » Smaart » Go to message
The Wizards are located in the "Smaart" tab of your VSL app for the 16.4.2 and 24.4.2 mixers. The wizards run on the host computer for universal control and are currently only available in UC1.7 and later; for those two consoles.

"Does anyone now how to start the "shoot the room" wizard?"

You are referring to the Smaart Room Analysis wizard, and that is the first tab, of three, when you open the Smaart wizards.

Have fun, and stay calm! FWIW, in the future you may want to ask your self "so what am I missing here" rather then "so what good is etc...".

Cheers, and happy 'shooting'!

- Chris.
StudioLive General Discussion » No Smaart spectograph on SL Remote? » Go to message
As far as I can tell, the Spectra graphics don't currently transmit to SL Remote. Hopefully that feature is coming down the pike with a future software revision. For now you can only view the Spectra features on the host computer. That being said, there are options to view and control you computer from your ipad, such as "LogMeIn". you may want to try that out to see if you are in favor of the results.


- Chris.
How do I (You fill in the blank)? » Smaart room analyzer » Go to message
Room tuning is best achieved with the parametric Eq. The Eq you adjust in the wizard is the parametric Eq for the output channel under test.
StudioLive General Discussion » NAMM Roll Call: Who's going? » Go to message
Looking forward to it!
StudioLive General Discussion » Pink noise only in left channel using SMAART and VSL 1.7 » Go to message
To the OP -

What you may find to be a more elegant solution is using two of the subgroup outputs as L/R. Run the analysis on one side, screen capture that (ie 'save the trace') and then run the analysis on the other side, use the equalizer to get the right side to have the same, or similar magnitude (think frequency) characteristic as the left side.
Studio One Feature Requests » Add this to pink noise generator. » Go to message
Auto Eq is sketchy at best, and with the tools given to you, namely Smaart Room Analysis, you are able to achieve a better, more qualified, and consistent result show to show, room to room. Automatic Feedback elimination doesn't fix bad speaker/microphone placement or handling. More often then not, using your head to take advantage of the tools you already have will result in better results then trying to take shortcuts and let a machine do the thinking for you - especially when that machine knows nothing about the physical aspects that are affecting the end result in the environment you are in.

Good Luck exploring the new features in 1.7! I'm confident that once you are used to/familiar with the features and possibilities that the Smaart wizards and analysis tools give you - you will never want automatic anything again. . . well except maybe an automatic coffee maker. I hate waiting for the brew.
Studio One General Discussion » Room Analysis Wizard questions » Go to message
Hello, there's been a good amount of chatter on these forums, all of your concerns have been answered in previous threads. However, the short of it is - The Eq intended to be used for tuning your room with the wizard is the parametric Eq, not the graphic. Graphic Eq is aesthetic, and meant for the live show, Parametric Eq is for the system, and set before soundcheck. This way you don't negate the system tuning during the show when you make live changes to the graphic Eq. There is no such thing as automatic Eq with the Smaart wizard, it's a tool enabling YOU to make the right decisions, not a machine making decisions for you blindly.

Any RTA mic you find will suit the wizards well. RTA mics are omnidirectional flat frequency condenser microphones, specifically designed with system measurement in mind. The talk back input does supply phantom power (unless for some reason yours is broken), and that is where you would plug the RTA mic into for the wizards. In fact the wizard prompts you to do that and doesn't work without that provision. There are options for external phantom power supplies, however, I would double check with your board before going down that road.
16.4.2 » Smaart 16.4.2 » Go to message
No Problem!

Right; *if you are analyzing the main output* the "main" fat channel Eq, and the para Eq in the wizard are the same Eq!!

Eq adjusted in the Smaart Analysis wizard corresponds to the selected fat channel para Eq for that output. Both the 24.4.2 and 16.4.2 work the same way.

You can choose to adjust the Eq with the ipad app, on the computer itself, or on the mixing console; either way the changes will be tracked.

I just experimented using the graphic as the system Eq, as a proof of concept. It took me about 75% longer to get a trace I was happy with - and I had to use up my graphic for that output :-/ - definitely not an advisable workflow.
16.4.2 » Smaart 16.4.2 » Go to message
Glad you got great results! FWIW, I would have used the parametric Eq to tune the room and saved the GEQ for the live show for anything performance related that came up (feedback mitigation, on-the-fly changes etc) . That is how the wizard is intended to be used, and how the professional system engineers tune their systems. Even with limited bandwidth options, I'd be happier with one or two parametric filters over trying to draw a trace with the GEq - to me, that is a waste of an Eq because as soon as I change that GEq during the show, my system tuning is no longer valid.

The basic concept is that you have a system Eq, and a live Eq, and once you have your system set, you can concentrate on the live show.

" I was able to get the analysis, but it did not change my GEQ automatically. So I just memorized the trace pattern and adjusted it myself"

The wizard gives you the information necessary to make valid Eq decisions, and verify that what you did had positive results. It is an analyzer, you are the operator - it is not intended to automatically Eq your show - I believe John Mills mentions this in the video, he surely demonstrates that.

Rock & Roll!!
StudioLive General Discussion » RTA Mic » Go to message
We just got a huge shipment of the RTA420's, we are stoked...and stocked too. Also, the holiday sale is on at the Rational Store - Merry Merry!
16.4.2 » Smaart 16.4.2 » Go to message
Glad you got it sorted!
16.4.2 » Smaart 16.4.2 » Go to message
The 16.4.2 is fixed Q, or bandwidth, so in the video John is using a 24.4.2. So as you've noticed, the Q on the 16 channel is fixed, I believe at 1/3rd octave.
StudioLive General Discussion » Anyone using REW (Room EQ Wizard) with a StudioLive mixer successfully? » Go to message
No, I'm trying to tell you that the calibration files are of no practical use for sub-woofer or bass analysis - whether you are using sine sweep, dual sine, pink noise, or any other source for a test signal. Although pink sweeps are great for getting a lower noise floor, without looking at an impulse response measurement you aren't benefiting from that function anyways. What I am trying to tell you is that you shouldn't be so hung up on using calibration files and be more interested in using the right tools for the job.

For tuning live sound, the single measurement that will benefit you the most is the Transfer Function. Proper timing information results in proper alignments, then you can move onto frequency. You can Eq the crap out of a system, but if it isn't in time then it still sounds poor. During the show, spectrum measurements are going to be more valuable - to see what is happening at your selected measurement point (RTA probe in venue) in your selected time window.

Here's a favorite quote of mine...

"Alone on a desert island with your favorite speakers, what would you choose: EQ or time delays? If you chose EQ, you've just been voted off the island. . . Time delay is the name of the system tuning game. . . at least it's the first step." - Francois Bergeron

edited grammar.
StudioLive General Discussion » Anyone using REW (Room EQ Wizard) with a StudioLive mixer successfully? » Go to message
Hey Greg!

I'm just looking back on this chain - you mentioned that your work is with bass response.

"The waterfall graphs are what I'm most interested in, to get an idea if room treatment is helping with bass response, or at least to understand what the anomalies are. "

So, I'm wondering why you keep mentioning calibration files.

" include being able to use a calibration file for the mic"

I think you have a misconception about microphone calibration files. Think of them more as microphone 'correction' files rather then calibration (in Smaart, we refer to calibration files as correction files to help aid in this understanding). The purpose of them is to correct for build up in the tip of the microphone from frequencies reflecting off and around the microphone capsule - only the shortest wave forms will exhibit this behavior - starting generally around 8.5kHz. anything lower is not going to be effected. I've attached a picture which shows this.

Do you do work with SPL? A calibration file would be handy for that as you have sensitivity data - otherwise calibration files aren't considered to be a gig make er' break-er.

Another poke for using impulse response measurements - you wouldn't use a hammer when you need a screw driver....
Forum Index » Profile for chrisatrational » Messages posted by chrisatrational