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32.4.2AI... DUDE!!
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Unclejambo
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Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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It just seems like the main competitor to the SL trumped it in every area earlier this year.

Presonus needed to do something special to claw something back at the entry level digital market and I think the 32 is way off the mark.

If they'd bundled the (almost) standalone WIFI connectivity, upgraded dsp and channel count with flying faders, dca's, extra groups and recallable gains in a frame size not too dissimilar to the sl24 they'd have been better off... but still only just about rivalled the other companies offering.

Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
jakejam
Presonic
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Joined: 20/10/2010 04:40:02
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Location: MSP
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Well....

Still seeing the overwhelming responses on adding subs caused me to try to think outside the box. Even if it wasn't an A/B switch for channel/sub, having the option to turn a 36 fader (potentially channel) board into any configurable sub additions up to 12 subs (what has been possibly titled "Phantom Subs") still seems like more of a winner to me under present circumstances.

So if you wanted to have 5 Subs (as the "no A/B" possibility), as soon as you Assigned SUB 5, you'd lose channel 32, but gain a sub. This would only seem to add the need for 12 Assigns, 12 sub outs, and the indicator lights on 25-32. The firmware should be easier from there, imo. Add "linking" to these Phantom Subs and stereo outs, and you've got 6 stereo SUB possibilities, or 12 mono...

Why is this a bad idea? What am I missing???

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/02/2013 14:50:26

JAKE JACOBS

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ChiroVette
Prenoob

Joined: 27/09/2012 17:42:00
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jakejam wrote:Well....

Still seeing the overwhelming responses on adding subs caused me to try to think outside the box. Even if it wasn't an A/B switch for channel/sub, having the option to turn a 36 fader (potentially channel) board into any configurable sub additions up to 12 subs (what has been possibly titled "Phantom Subs") still seems like more of a winner to me under present circumstances.


It is. Look, I agree that it is kind of bullcrap that a 32 mixer with the quality and features of the SL has only 4 sub groups, but the reality is that I honestly think that most end users don't need 32 channels. So even in deference to the small percentage of people who actually need 32 full channels, your idea is an effective workaround for the rest of the customers and you definitely get style points for creativity.

jakejam wrote:So if you wanted to have 5 Subs (as the "no A/B" possibility), as soon as you Assigned SUB 5, you'd lose channel 32, but gain a sub. This would only seem to add the need for 12 Assigns, 12 sub outs, and the indicator lights on 25-32. The firmware should be easier from there, imo. Add "linking" to these Phantom Subs and stereo outs, and you've got 6 stereo SUB possibilities, or 12 mono...

Why is this a bad idea? What am I missing???


It isn't. It's a great idea, in fact.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/02/2013 15:00:39

knerr
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Joined: 16/11/2010 20:21:29
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Location: West Central IN
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jakejam wrote:Well....

Still seeing the overwhelming responses on adding subs caused me to try to think outside the box. Even if it wasn't an A/B switch for channel/sub, having the option to turn a 36 fader (potentially channel) board into any configurable sub additions up to 12 subs (what has been possibly titled "Phantom Subs") still seems like more of a winner to me under present circumstances.

So if you wanted to have 5 Subs (as the "no A/B" possibility), as soon as you Assigned SUB 5, you'd lose channel 32, but gain a sub. This would only seem to add the need for 12 Assigns, 12 sub outs, and the indicator lights on 25-32. The firmware should be easier from there, imo. Add "linking" to these Phantom Subs and stereo outs, and you've got 6 stereo SUB possibilities, or 12 mono...

Why is this a bad idea? What am I missing???


I don't think it's a bad idea, just kind of a moot point, because I believe it's extremely unlikely they'll change anything physical on the boards.

Just to play devil's advocate, could you basically do this by routing through Studio One? Might add latency, but I wouldn't think too much, as long as you're not processing it a ton. You'd still have the Fat Channel on the channel you routed back to to process it anyway. Just a thought.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/02/2013 15:01:47

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Unclejambo
Presonic

Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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The mock-up is great.. the idea would be great... if there weren't already desks at a lower price point offering those subs and more without losing the channels.

I can only assume presonus had delved too far into production when the competition released their mixer. I don't see the mixers place in the market, I really don't.

I don't wish the company ill, I was genuinely shocked when I first got my hands on a studiolive and thought 2013 might be their big step out of weekend warrior and independent venue territory into the pro audio market.

Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
ChiroVette
Prenoob

Joined: 27/09/2012 17:42:00
Messages: 58
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Unclejambo wrote:The mock-up is great.. the idea would be great... if there weren't already desks at a lower price point offering those subs and more without losing the channels.

I can only assume presonus had delved too far into production when the competition released their mixer. I don't see the mixers place in the market, I really don't.

I don't wish the company ill, I was genuinely shocked when I first got my hands on a studiolive and thought 2013 might be their big step out of weekend warrior and independent venue territory into the pro audio market.



I agree with what you are saying overall, but you don't think that the SL mixers are pro audio? I certainly think they are. These aren't $500.00 Mackie boards. Many pro audio guys use SL mixers. I am not saying you want one in an arena or stadium, and I certainly wouldn't say they are as good as some of the $20K mixers out there, but SL is plenty "pro" and will serve many professional musicians and sound men very well.
jakejam
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I guess if they didn't want to add the hardware, they could achieve the same thing by adding an alternate firmware. It might be confusing with no direct assign buttons or indicator lights, but :

1-4 (SUBS 1-4)
1&2 (SUB 5)
2&3 (SUB 6)
3&4 (SUB 7)
1&4 (SUB 8)
2&4 (SUB 9)
1&3 (SUB 10)
1,2,3 (SUB 11)
2,3,4 (SUB 12)

Then, this alt firmware could be applied to the 16's, 24, and 32 already on the market.

(HA!... Just realized that for the 16's, the possibility would be a 4 channel board with 12 subs.)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 01/02/2013 15:54:10

JAKE JACOBS

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ChiroVette
Prenoob

Joined: 27/09/2012 17:42:00
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Hmmm Okay, I was just looking at the mixer in Sweetwater, where they are apparently taking pre-orders, and I thought of a question for anyone who works at Presonus:

Everyone talks about layered channels in some compact digital mixers, so you may have, say 32 channels in a mixer with only 16 channel faders. You press a button and go from channel 1 through 16 to channels 17 through 32...and blah, blah, blah. But is it possible to have a future firmare update that would allow layering up subs for those who need say 8 or 12 subs? Just press a button and you go from the four faders controlling subs 1 through 4 to them controlling subs 5 through 8, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/02/2013 15:59:17

mepstein
Presonic

Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
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Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
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Just curious, what if there were "soft" subs, assignable and adjustable only via VSL. Particularly if they'd give VSL docking windows.

Assuming it's doable, does that satisfy any of the need for more subs? I know in my case it would, but I have VSL open almost all the time.
Unclejambo
Presonic

Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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ChiroVette wrote:
I agree with what you are saying overall, but you don't think that the SL mixers are pro audio? I certainly think they are. These aren't $500.00 Mackie boards. Many pro audio guys use SL mixers. I am not saying you want one in an arena or stadium, and I certainly wouldn't say they are as good as some of the $20K mixers out there, but SL is plenty "pro" and will serve many professional musicians and sound men very well.


Well mine is installed in a 280 cap music venue with an over spec PA, we've mixed Hawthorne Heights, Funeral For a Friend, Lost Prophets and more on the sl24.. It is a great sounding desk and touring engineers who've been unable to poker face their initial disappointment have left the venue pleasantly surprised..

Thats kind of my point. As presonus first foray into into live mixers, they did a hell of a job and would have had an easier task of delving further into the market with the impressions they've made. Had they wanted to stay in the compact market this year, they needed to rival the compacts. They decided to go for a larger format... but with less features than the competitors compacts.

As for SL in the stadium world, why not? But again, with flying faders, groups, dcas, routing matrix.. maybe vga out for a universal control style screen setup and obviously extra ins and outs.

It's like they went to an AV convention and ceremoniously unveiled a CRT.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/02/2013 16:04:32

Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
mepstein
Presonic

Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
Messages: 267
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
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ChiroVette wrote: Everyone talks about layered channels in some compact digital mixers, so you may have, say 32 channels in a mixer with only 16 channel faders. You press a button and go from channel 1 through 16 to channels 17 through 32...and blah, blah, blah. But is it possible to have a future firmare update that would allow layering up subs for those who need say 8 or 12 subs? Just press a button and you go from the four faders controlling subs 1 through 4 to them controlling subs 5 through 8, etc.


To have layered anything, you need either motorized faders, fader locate mode, soft take over, or something else to put the physical faders at the right positions for their new functions.

Fader Locate is cumbersome and IMO would be a lot of work every time you needed to change layers.
Soft takeover could work and I am a fan, but even I think it would be cumbersome on the subs.
Motorized is expensive, potentially noisy, and PreSonus has resisted them so far. But I agree they missed the boat on this design, and motorized faders might be the best way to "save" it. At least they'd only have to change firmware, silkscreen, and a little circuit design. The FaderPort tells us they know how to make motorized faders work.
ChiroVette
Prenoob

Joined: 27/09/2012 17:42:00
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Unclejambo, the only point you were making that I was contesting was you saying that the SL is not pro gear. I wasn't disagreeing with you on anything else. I believe that SL is pr gear, but of course I could be wrong.

Mspstein, I am probably the one guy in the world who is not a fan of motorized faders under the heading of "something else mechanical to go wrong." lol Of course, this would be a pretty damned stupid argument to make against them, but I digress. What is soft takeover?
mepstein
Presonic

Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
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ChiroVette wrote:
Mspstein, I am probably the one guy in the world who is not a fan of motorized faders under the heading of "something else mechanical to go wrong." lol Of course, this would be a pretty damned stupid argument to make against them, but I digress. What is soft takeover?


I agree with the mechanical concern... Soft Take Over (PreSonus' term for it, it seems) is this:

SwitchBack wrote:
When fader or pot location and actual setting don't match (because the setting was changed either via FW or by recalling a scene) you can move the physical pot or fader with no effect until you pass the actual setting point. The pot or fader will pick up from there. No jumps, no fader locate mode needed.

PS. You can make the lock-in action a little smarter by adding one safety exception to the 'lock first' rule: Slamming a pot or fader should always cut the signal, even if you didn't pass 'x'.
samuel2230
Presonic

Joined: 15/05/2011 15:25:49
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Flying fader tech has become pretty good and reliable. Presonus obviously decided it was not worth it, I disagree though. I don't 't think I'm the only one either, I'll be surprised if they sell 30,000 of these in 6 months (X32 sales). The Dante card and speaker integration will help though. I hate to complain, but I was looking for baby GLD. Dante snake built in, big LCD. I'd have been tempted away with that easy.

samuel2230
Presonic

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PS - They are definitely not going to add more subs by any weird channel eating thing Maybe it'd work but it'd be super confusing without flying faders, and ease of use is their big stand on this product. No way.
 
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