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Zero Latency Monitoring
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AudioCave
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Joined: 22/04/2009 13:02:36
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People still aren't quite getting it, how "revolutionary" (in my view anyway) the UC Zero Latency monitoring is with Studio One and Presonus gear. We (you) really need a definitive real world example video to show this but Johnny does it really well in the video below.

Not a "contest" between HD and S1 but HD users are still under the mistaken impression that HD is the only host that allows this - in the software UI - for ADA roundtrip monitoring with little effort. Point being, professional audio tracking is *not* typically done through plug-ins, but through great pres with great mics. Studio One (imo) with UC Control is clearly the superior monitoring system out there in native and is arguably better - easier to setup and use - than HD. Nothing else even comes close in native that I can see.

Presonus should really make a video tracking 24 musicians with multiple discreet cue mixes, and make this advantage perfectly clear. IMO this may be the biggest selling point for Studio One. People still don't quite get that this system is - and I say this without hesitation - arguably the best monitoring solution currently out there for an in the box tracking solution.

Great vid Johnny.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 07/11/2010 18:12:51

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themuzic
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Thanx AC! I too would love to see a full band video that really goes through setting up Zero Latency for each of the musicians.

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bobbybland
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I've tried setting up the zero latency on recording,but I still hear a noticeable latency.. Enough to make me switch it back off.. I'm used to my Emu 1820M's Dsp I guess..

Though not used as a plugin, there was absolutely no latency at all... For faster Lyrics true zero latency is important,perhaps slower singers don't get it,but I can hear it..Maybe I'm missing something??

I'll watch the video again,but I'm almost positive that I'm setting it up exactly as shown...
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themuzic
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You will not hear the Zero Latency out of the speakers. You need to have the headphones plugged in to the output you are monitoring from. The Zero latency is only effected by what ever is setup up as a cue mix.

Now you could set the main outs as a cue mix and only then will you get the zero latency out of the main monitors. When you go to the output section in the Song Setup, click the cue mix for the mains and you'll see the "Z" show up on the main outs.

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I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

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AudioCave
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I like the unambiguous nature of your video. The way you had the latency "online" audibly was great. That system - and the way S1 interfaces with it directly - is only a couple of development steps away from perfection...

  • Allow switching the Z's and the locks on/off by channel selection, multiple channels at once. If you unlock and/or click the Z on one, all selected tracks cue sends follow.

  • Flip the faders to cues for building the cue mixes.

  • Default all of the "Z's" to on (and maybe all locks to off) instead of off/on when creating 'send" cues when they exist. Assume zero latency and unlocked as the default when you have that proprietary pairing.

  • Add those 3 things and it will be dead perfect in 2.0... imo... from the fanboy peanut gallery.

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 07/11/2010 20:16:46

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    themuzic
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    AudioCave wrote:I like the unambiguous nature of your video. The way you had the latency "online" audibly was great. That system - and the way S1 interfaces with it directly - is only a couple of development steps away from perfection...

  • Allow switching the Z's and the locks on/off by channel selection, multiple channels at once. If you unlock and/or click the Z on one, all selected tracks cue sends follow.

  • Flip the faders to cues for building the cue mixes.

  • Default all of the "Z's" to on instead of off when creating cues when they exist. Assume zero latency as the default when you have that proprietary pairing.

  • Add those 3 things and it will be dead perfect in 2.0... imo... from the fanboy peanut gallery.


    Thanx man and I totally agree with your other thoughts! It is close to being a perfect solution. I say we feed the FR, eh?

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    I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

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    bedstrom
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    AudioCave wrote:I like the unambiguous nature of your video. The way you had the latency "online" audibly was great. That system - and the way S1 interfaces with it directly - is only a couple of development steps away from perfection...

  • Allow switching the Z's and the locks on/off by channel selection, multiple channels at once. If you unlock and/or click the Z on one, all selected tracks cue sends follow.

  • Flip the faders to cues for building the cue mixes.

  • Default all of the "Z's" to on (and maybe all locks to off) instead of off/on when creating 'send" cues when they exist. Assume zero latency and unlocked as the default when you have that proprietary pairing.

  • Add those 3 things and it will be dead perfect in 2.0... imo... from the fanboy peanut gallery.


    There used to be a limitation with zero latency monitoring when you have two or more Firestudios chained together. Is that still the case?

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 07/11/2010 21:59:18

    Bill Edstrom
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    themuzic
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    bedstrom wrote:
    AudioCave wrote:I like the unambiguous nature of your video. The way you had the latency "online" audibly was great. That system - and the way S1 interfaces with it directly - is only a couple of development steps away from perfection...

  • Allow switching the Z's and the locks on/off by channel selection, multiple channels at once. If you unlock and/or click the Z on one, all selected tracks cue sends follow.

  • Flip the faders to cues for building the cue mixes.

  • Default all of the "Z's" to on (and maybe all locks to off) instead of off/on when creating 'send" cues when they exist. Assume zero latency and unlocked as the default when you have that proprietary pairing.

  • Add those 3 things and it will be dead perfect in 2.0... imo... from the fanboy peanut gallery.


    There used to be a limitation with zero latency monitoring when you have two or more Firestudios chained together. Is that still the case?


    Yes. Zero Latency is not available in S1 with 2 or more units chained and I believe that's even if they are the same unit. I know it doesn't work with my FS Tube and FS Mobile chained. However chaining these 2 makes for a pretty powerful system overall.

    BUT that only applies to using it with Studio One. Using the Universal Control directly still works though.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 07/11/2010 22:10:41


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    Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
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    Phone - 773-303-7260
    I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

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    AudioCave
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    bedstrom wrote:There used to be a limitation with zero latency monitoring when you have two or more Firestudios chained together. Is that still the case?


    I had no idea that was the case. I only have the one device.

    I can see why there might be some issues doing that but if you can do it from the actual software mixer (dunno), combine inputs from various devices to outputs that "cross over" to other devices (input A to output B at zero latency etc) via a single mixer control panel, not sure why the driver couldn't allow doing the same via remote control. How does that work from the UC mixer now? Can you bring inputs from device A to the analog outputs of device B? If the "patching across units" is possible there I think it may also be in the driver one day similarly.

    Either way, the FS Lightpipe looks darned good to me. With 32 I/O and multiple nice 8 channel pres on the market that spit out ADAT... win/win.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 07/11/2010 23:06:04

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    bedstrom
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    AudioCave wrote:
    bedstrom wrote:There used to be a limitation with zero latency monitoring when you have two or more Firestudios chained together. Is that still the case?


    I had no idea that was the case. I only have the one device.

    Either way, the FS Lightpipe looks darned good to me. With 32 I/O and multiple nice 8 channel pres on the market that spit out ADAT... win/win.


    Exactly. That would be the way to go for a large zero latency monitoring setup. Or maybe a Studio Live 34 board...
    Bill Edstrom
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    AudioCave
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    bedstrom wrote:That would be the way to go for a large zero latency monitoring setup.


    I've been temped but I'd hate to do that and see a new Presonus PCI card 2 months later. I prefer PCI (for desktops of course) so I'll wait and see what the future may bring or not.
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    fat chief
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    I used the big "Z" this week end and everyhting went ezaxctly as planned. I was able to have the main mix and send an addtional mix to the singer that was mixed to his liking. No issues with latency what so ever.

    Signal chain was

    (Rode M-3) Mic > M-Audio Tampa Preamp/Comp > SPDIF out > FS Mobile SPDIF in = Awesome results.

    Thanks Jonny, You video was very educational and everyone involved was very happy with the resulting tracks.
    What I couldn't believe was how easy it was to put a cue mix together.

    Looking forward to the next session.
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    bobbybland
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    themuzic wrote:You will not hear the Zero Latency out of the speakers. You need to have the headphones plugged in to the output you are monitoring from. The Zero latency is only effected by what ever is setup up as a cue mix.

    Now you could set the main outs as a cue mix and only then will you get the zero latency out of the main monitors. When you go to the output section in the Song Setup, click the cue mix for the mains and you'll see the "Z" show up on the main outs.


    Hi themusik,
    Again thanks for making these video's,they are indeed very fun and easy to watch.. I have set it up exactly like you've got it..I'm monitoring from the headphones,but still hear a latency.. I'm using your method described,along with a Monitor station,and an HP4..

    It's pretty darn close,to zero latency,but I can still hear it...This is with the Z button engaged.. As soon as I set it up without a cue mix though,the regular way.. Enabling the UC mixer and without the blue monitoring button on,I hear it without any latency..

    So unless there's something else going on,on my setup, I'm almost there,but not quite as good as the regular old way..

    Thanks again for the video's,you do an excellent job.
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    themuzic
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    bobbybland wrote:
    themuzic wrote:You will not hear the Zero Latency out of the speakers. You need to have the headphones plugged in to the output you are monitoring from. The Zero latency is only effected by what ever is setup up as a cue mix.

    Now you could set the main outs as a cue mix and only then will you get the zero latency out of the main monitors. When you go to the output section in the Song Setup, click the cue mix for the mains and you'll see the "Z" show up on the main outs.


    Hi themusik,
    Again thanks for making these video's,they are indeed very fun and easy to watch.. I have set it up exactly like you've got it..I'm monitoring from the headphones,but still hear a latency.. I'm using your method described,along with a Monitor station,and an HP4..

    It's pretty darn close,to zero latency,but I can still hear it...This is with the Z button engaged.. As soon as I set it up without a cue mix though,the regular way.. Enabling the UC mixer and without the blue monitoring button on,I hear it without any latency..

    So unless there's something else going on,on my setup, I'm almost there,but not quite as good as the regular old way..

    Thanks again for the video's,you do an excellent job.


    Ok, if you're using the monitor station, you need to make sure that the output feeding it is in fact coming from the output setup for the cue mix. The output needs to go to ST2 on the Monitor Station and any headphones need to be set up as well. If you're still hearing latency, there's still something you have yet to configure because there is no "Almost".

    What I would do first, is test with just the headphone out of the actual sound card and not the Monitor Station. If you can get that to work, use that headphone out to feed the Monitor Stations ST2 and then make sure the Monitor Station's headphones are set to its cue mix.

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    krollb
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    Thanks for the great video. I am super frustrated by the limitation in Studio One that you have discussed - ZL monitoring only works on the first unit. To make things worse, the serial numbers of the units determine the order, so my FS Tube (with more and more flexible inputs) is always the second unit, and the FS Project is the first. I was going to switch to Studio One, but ZL is a key requirement for me. If I stay with my current DAW (Acid Pro) and use the Universal Control to feed two monitor mixes, one from each FS, into the A and B channels of my HP60 headphone monitoring units, I can get zero latency on all 18 mic pres. I get less flexibility for custom mixes, but I can send individual channels to additional monitor outs, and plug them into the additional ins on the HP60 for "more me".

    I hope Studio One gets around this soon as it is an outstanding platform.

    Thanks.
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