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How do you guys do this?
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mikemanthei
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Joined: 05/06/2014 05:34:20
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I've searched quite a bit for an answer to this, and it seems like I'm the only one is having this problem. So it is possible that the rest of the world has a workaround for it already. I'm an old-school (old's cool) analog guy and this is my first DAW... if that helps.

Could you please tell me how you do this? Here's the simplest scenario, as in real life I commonly run 3-5 monitor mixes..
Let's assume you have your control room (CR) mix playing through CR monitors. In another room is your performer and you've got a separate cue bus set up for them. Being an old-school guy, I like to listen to my performer's mix every now and then to see what he's hearing and possibly fix something even before he asks for it.

I push the solo button on the Headphone Cue output channel, and... nothing. It might be soloing that output channel, but I can't hear it. I've been trying to hear these cue mixes for some time, but I'm stumped. Is there a way to do this in S1, or have you all found a workaround that you'd like to share?
Have you all just resigned to the fact that it won't work and have purchased external hardware or ... what?

Thanks.

Lokeyfly
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You're only as good as your hardware's I/O so you'll need to cue your monitor mix be it 3, 5 or how many you use. Are you running several monitor mixes now, and if so on what hardware?

You can assign cue mix outputs easily to your existing hardware. check the manual at 5.10.1 for this.



Also if you want options in the control room to use talkback to communicate to the artists during recording, and send a Cue Mix to the four headphone amps and the Main Mix to your speakers you can use something like the Presonus Monitor Station (Hello external hardware).

To simply tap into their separate mix, just monitor their mix from a separate auxiliary from S1's mixer, and assign that same cue mix. In addition to the mains, I typically run a separate headphone mix. If you keep it tht simple, you wont need any other hardware, depending what you have in the first place.

Yeah, it's good to be one step ahead of them.
In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
mikemanthei
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In the past, I have been running monitor mixes from a Soundcraft analog console, 6 mono Aux's and 2 stereo Aux's, plus a stereo "Mix B" as it's an dual-path inline console. I seldom need more than 5 separate headphone cues.

but that's really quite cumbersome to drag along to the DAW world. Not to mention, it's time to leave the analog world behind.

I have looked at the Monitor Station, and if all I needed was a single headphone mix, that would be a fine solution. But since it's only capable of a single headphone mix, that's not going to suffice.

On to your next suggestion: "To simply tap into their separate mix, just monitor their mix from a separate auxiliary from S1's mixer, and assign that same cue mix."

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you give me a screenshot of what you're talking about?
I've tried to create multiple output channels, (one routed out to the 'phones, and the other to the main) but each cue send only goes to one output. Redirecting the output of their cue mix to the mains interrupts their send, so it can't be done that way either.

It would be so much easier if they would just make the SOLO button work.
Lokeyfly
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Here's the simplest scenario, as in real life I commonly run 3-5 monitor mixes..
Let's assume you have your control room (CR) mix playing through CR monitors. In another room is your performer and you've got a separate cue bus set up for them. Being an old-school guy, I like to listen to my performer's mix every now and then to see what he's hearing and possibly fix something even before he asks for it.

.2nd response...In the past, I have been running monitor mixes from a Soundcraft analog console, 6 mono Aux's and 2 stereo Aux's, plus a stereo "Mix B" as it's an dual-path inline console. I seldom need more than 5 separate headphone cues.

but that's really quite cumbersome to drag along to the DAW world. Not to mention, it's time to leave the analog world behind.


I'm having trouble understanding because the original intent you are looking to tap into several monitor mixes, but in the 2nd response, you don't wish to drag the mixer...which I get all that, but leaves me wondering what you are ultimately concerned with cuing separate mixes, and keeping things simple in the DAW world.

Question. Are you running discrete separate channels to different people in your studio/environment?
If so, you must be monitoring a separate mix to them. So I suspect you have for example an 8 in/8 out audio interface (or 4 in/out)?

If this helps, say you have a FireStudio interface

You would make a cue mix using another output Channel.
Open the Song/Song Setup/Audio I/O Setup menu in a Song, switch to the Outputs tab, and add a new
Stereo Output channel. Then, specify that output is a cue-mix output by clicking on the
channel’s Cue Mix checkbox. Create as many cue mixes as your audio interface has
available stereo outputs.

Better than layout scenarios, it would be best (I think) if we knew what hardware you're using as an audio interface now.
That way we have more substance, what its monitoring possibilities are, and so on. But I think the above example will get you there.

I have looked at the Monitor Station, and if all I needed was a single headphone mix, that would be a fine solution. But since it's only capable of a single headphone mix, that's not going to suffice.
Well, I probably shouldn't have brought that up as that was for more monitor patching. Its actually more than a single headphone mix. I have a Rane HC-6. Still, I get the Monitor mix is not what you are looking for. I only brought that up from the initial multiple monitoring, and it has added talkback, but we can agree that is more of a playback for numerous monitors. It does have 2 separate stereo line ins though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/06/2014 07:56:36

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
mikemanthei
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I'm having trouble understanding because the original intent you are looking to tap into several monitor mixes, but in the 2nd response, you don't wish to drag the mixer...which I get all that, but leaves me wondering what you are ultimately concerned with cuing separate mixes, and keeping things simple in the DAW world


I'll do my best to clarify. thanks for sticking with me.

Question. Are you running discrete separate channels to different people in your studio/environment?
If so, you must be monitoring a separate mix to them. So I suspect you have for example an 8 in/8 out audio interface (or 4 in/out)?


Yes, I'm sending multiple outputs to multiple musicians. I often track a drummer, bass, keyboards, guitar, and vocal at the same time. I've used the Focusrite 18i20 and the Presonus 1818VSL. Not a the same time, obviously, but I've used both while trying to work the bugs out to the point that it can replace my old analog system.

But the issue isn't the hardware.. at least it doesn't seem that way to me. The problem is the software doesn't allow me to solo up any of the outputs to the headphone mixes.


If so, you would see something like the same chart of the cue mix outputs, and you'd have more in/out channels. It is those channels you would set up your separate monitor outs.


Yes, I've used that interface to set up many different options. I'm not having trouble setting up headphone mixes. I'm having trouble LISTENING to those mixes in the control room. With the solo button not working, I am forced to make changes to the headphone mixes totally blind. (or deaf as it were..)

For instance the chart has 2 for "Monitors". They are patched by Sub 1, and Sub 2, so any assignment from Sub 1 or Sub 2 (or both) can be accessed. as shown, the mains are on Line 7 & 8. You could additionally have a separate mix on 5 & 6, with another going out as 3 & 4, etc. You would send a bus via those outs, and monitor the bus as desired.


I really appreciate you trying to help. But I think you're trying to help me set up output channels, and that's not what's wrong. The output mapping is fine. I have CR to 1&2, Headphone mix 1 to 3&4, Headphone 2 to 5&6, etc.
All of what you mentioned in that last paragraph is correct, but the "...and monitor the bus as desired." is the part that doesn't work. The musicians can monitor the bus output using headphones, but I cannot monitor it.

Better than layout scenarios, it would be best (I think) if we knew what hardware you're using as an audio interface now.
That way we have more substance, what its monitoring possibilities are, and so on.


Well, I've tried both the Focusrite and Presonus models. I have plenty of output options... and the headphone outputs all work and carry the signals as intended. So again... just for clarification...
I have set up multiple headphone outputs and they all work.
The issue is that I can't solo up those mixes in the control room, and I need to before I can replace my old analog system with S1.

Am I still being unclear? I don't know how else to say it.

Does it work for you? When you set up a headphone cue mix to (let's say outputs 3 & 4) and then push the SOLO button on the output channel, do you hear the mix that's going to that output? I don't. And tech support tells me that it doesn't work that way, and it's normal, and I should just get over it.. So that's why I'm asking how everyone else is monitoring their outputs other than "Main L&R"


It seems to me that it should never have left beta testing without the SOLO buttons working, so that's why I'm both frustrated and confused.


Lokeyfly
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Good you're hanging with it. The idea is to help you get your separate mixes.

This from the manual of Presonus as it suggests the same scenario.

It would only take me more words, and I'm running low on sleep fuel.
I underlined the key points. Don't worry, we wont abandon you.
5.10.1 Creating a Cue Mix Output
In Studio One, it is possible to quickly and easily create multiple cue mixes. A cue mix is
separate from the main mix and is usually provided to musicians for monitoring purposes
during recording.
For instance, when recording vocals, the engineer and vocalist will probably want to hear
different mixes. Most vocalists want to hear more of their vocals in the mix, possibly with some
reverb to make it sound natural, while the engineer might focus on how the performance
balances with the rest of the mix. Together, Studio One and a FireStudio™-series interface
make this simple.
The first step in building a cue mix is to create another Output Channel. To do this, open the
Song/Song Setup/Audio I/O Setup menu in a Song, switch to the Outputs tab, and add a new
Stereo Output channel. Next, specify that this output is a cue-mix output by clicking on the
channel’s Cue Mix checkbox. You can create as many cue mixes as your audio interface has
available stereo outputs
.

5.10.2 Mixing the Cue Mix
Cue mixes are built using Cue Mix objects. By default, the level and pan values are locked to
the channel level and pan faders. This means that each Cue Mix will be identical to the main
mix in the Console. Changing the level or pan in the Cue Mix object will unlock both settings,
allowing independent control of level and pan for each channel in each Cue Mix. Thus, the
level and pan for channels in a Cue Mix can be completely different from the related level and
pan in the main mix.
At any time, you can lock the cue-mix level and pan back to the channel settings by clicking on
the Lock to Channel button. To completely remove any channel from a cue mix, simply
deactivate the Cue Mix object for that channel.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/06/2014 08:33:22

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
mikemanthei
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I was just re-reading your post and I see how you can use the Monitor Station as a 2-headphone mix device. Clever idea.
mikemanthei
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You must be low on sleep. You're still referring me to articles on how to create a cue mix.

That's not what I'm having a problem with.
Lokeyfly
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The issue is that I can't solo up those mixes in the control room, and I need to before I can replace my old analog system with S1.

Does it work for you? When you set up a headphone cue mix to (let's say outputs 3 & 4) and then push the SOLO button on the output channel, do you hear the mix that's going to that output? I don't. And tech support tells me that it doesn't work that way, and it's normal, and I should just get over it.. So that's why I'm asking how everyone else is monitoring their outputs other than "Main L&R"


Pushing solo on button on ANY solo as you know ill override outputs and play that solo out on all channels (or channel it is dedicated to) so with that in mind, soloing lets say an aux buss would channel all sends going to that bus to be heard. You probably on your soundcraft ran separate mixes to the auxiliaries, and you could switch your output section to cue any of the sends, and send mixes going out to separate monitors for that matter. I used to run a separate board live to the stage for separate stage monitoring and having discrete mixes and monitoring. The main board would handle the house and all separate channels out of the house system.

Remember, a mixer on a DAW is similar but not exact in paths as a hardware mixer. Such sub groups still can be set up.

I wouldn't be soloing to hear that separate mix, but have the ability to switch to that output path. You want and have separate channels on your audio interface, you could tap into them that way. Hardware patching very easily even with a small mixer. If you are running separate feeds out, you have a mixer now, yes?

Yes, a cue mix would allow you to hear a different mix. but you want to hear that individuals separate feed.

I get that, but I don't get accessing solo to do that (I think you would be stepping on everyone's feed. You're right though. We can draw this out to see the possibilities that way.
See attached. One of our illustrious users draws up some very useful signal flow diagrams. Have a look and see how you could set up discrete channeling, and monitor that. I still say it comes down to cuing separate outputs, but the chart covers more clear ground for you, as its something you need.

See attached (sorry, will send a clearer one later). Was all I had.

11_08_2013-12_43.png
[Thumb - 11_08_2013-12_43.png]
 Description Studio One signal flow [Disk] Download
 Filesize 229 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  973 time(s)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 27/06/2014 12:57:17

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
Lokeyfly
Presonoid
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Thinking you could do this to avoid the hardware based option. On my cell phone so ill keep it short but you had me thinking.

Run for example  4 separate buss mixes. Each send level going to each of those busses varies for each users preferred mix levels. 
Those busses Then go to 4 separate outputs on your audio interface. 
You should then be able to preview each of those mixes by solo and that solo is sent to your cr monitoring (mains).
The other option could be at the outs where you run a 1U rack space mixer. 

But I think the first software bus method would do the job. 
 
Personally, I do go the hardware route in my studio setup through the board, but I think this would work so long as you can route those busses.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 27/06/2014 17:05:17

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
matthewgorman
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you need something like this in your control room.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LS3/
Matt

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mikemanthei
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you need something like this in your control room.

Matthew, how does that help? It's a line switcher.

I can see I'm STILL not getting my question across in an understandable way. I don't need a line switcher.

Lokeyfly;
Your first message was quite convoluted and again I think you're mis-understanding what I want/need. And that picture is way too small to read. However, your second message gets close. Let's drop all other discussions and start there.

Run for example 4 separate buss mixes. Each send level going to each of those busses varies for each users preferred mix levels.

Yes, Exactly.
Those busses Then go to 4 separate outputs on your audio interface.

Exactly!!! You're right on track! That's how it's set up.
You should then be able to preview each of those mixes by solo and that solo is sent to your cr monitoring (mains).

.....and that's where it fails. Try to do exactly as you suggested.

I'm serious. Please do that exact scenario and tell me if it works. It makes logical sense that it SHOULD work, but it doesn't.
When you find out that you can't solo that mix and hear it in the CR (mains), then you'll start to understand the road I'm on.

I await your reply.

overcoat
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my head hurts....
Studio One Pro w/ latest build // i7 2.6 ghz mac mini w/ 16gb ram // RME Fireface UCX // Yamaha HS50m's // GAP Pre-73 modded // Blue Reactor mic // Shure sm7b, 57 & 58 // Roland TR8 // Faderport // Padkontrol & Edirol pcr-50 // Arturia V-collection 3.0, V-station, Synthmaster 2.5, Komplete 9 and various other vst's...
mikemanthei
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my head hurts....


I've been at this since May... I'm way past hurt.

So, Overcoat. How do YOU listen to what you're sending to the headphones? Can you shed some light on this?
Do you understand what I'm trying to do?
overcoat
Presonic
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sorry, i was reading through this thread to learn to be honest. I record myself mostly in a bedroom. my set up is pretty simple and i don't really need cue mixes. I'm a hobbyist at best. I wish i could be of help. you're in good hands though. Lokeyfly amongst a few others around here are definitely your best bet to figuring this thing out. if it's possible

good luck man.
Studio One Pro w/ latest build // i7 2.6 ghz mac mini w/ 16gb ram // RME Fireface UCX // Yamaha HS50m's // GAP Pre-73 modded // Blue Reactor mic // Shure sm7b, 57 & 58 // Roland TR8 // Faderport // Padkontrol & Edirol pcr-50 // Arturia V-collection 3.0, V-station, Synthmaster 2.5, Komplete 9 and various other vst's...
 
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