image description

pre or post eq monitors
  Forum Index » StudioLive General Discussion 

Joined: 06/01/2014 09:32:35
Messages: 3

Hi! Thomas from sweden!!
I have had the pre 1 setting in monotors and sometimes when you have trouble instruments for ex. a acoustic guitar and a vocal in the same monitor and have to do drastic changes in the eq on the acoustic guitar you destroy the eq on the vocal when you use the eq for the whole monitor!! Isn't it better to use the pre 2 setting and ring out the monitors??
And when you dont have a mic near the monitor, many times the drummonitor, can you choose the pre 2 setting when there are no mic,s nearby??? Thanx!! Thomas!!!

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428

There are no rules regarding pre1, pre2 or even post for monitors. Whichever makes your boat float.

One tip I can give: Monitors don't absolutely have to sound nice! The main (maybe only) purpose of monitors is to help the people on stage with their performance. E.g. as a singer you don't need to hear every single bit of drum kit or even every instrument on stage, effects and all, for a good performance. And from what you want to hear you probably don't need every last hertz either.
So as a technician be critical about what you add, and don't offer what you might regret later.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 21/06/2014 16:07:11


Joined: 28/10/2011 17:57:00
Messages: 3878
Location: Central PA

To add to this. as a singer, I absolutely HATE effects in my monitors. I want to hear ME. Anything added just has a chance of making me sing off key.

That and I need to hear the baseline/chords, but that's usually good for me with the stage volume of all the instruments.

And as SwitchBack said,monitors are NOT the same as the mains. Some bands say they want the main mix in the monitors. I think this is some kind of ploy to hear how you're mixing them. Well I have tops and subs in the mains, dialed in for the room using a DriveRack - the main mix will NEVER sound the same in the monitors.

I flatten out my monitors using Smaart, then turn on the Low Cut on the speakers. Then on the graphic EQ, I pull down 200Hz and 2.5kHz - these always seem "too much" for monitors for some reason, especially vocals. And with that in mind, I always start the monitors with vocals only, then add instruments as the players request them. Many times, they only need the vocals and any more you put in the mix just muddies up the stage volume.

This is not necessarily a suggestion - just telling what I start with. Do with it as you please...
I am Sir Melvis Bacon, Knight of BaconHam Palace.

MacBook Pro 13. OS X Mavericks - version 10.9.3
StudioLive 16.4.2; StudioLive 328AI (x2)
AudioBox 22 VSL; BlueTube DP V2; FaderPort; Monitor Station; FireStudio Project (x2)
Studio One 2 Pro 2.6.2 (64 bit)
I use Gobbler to back up my projects.

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428

Funny thing I noticed with EQ-ing individual inputs for monitors: Especially with singers it can make matters worse.

Picture a singer with pronounced nasality or siblance. EQ-ing the input can compensate for FOH, but using the same settings for the singer's monitor works counterproductive. Maybe good for confidence, but with (some of) the rough edges of their voices in the monitors singers tend to check themselves, making it easier to get a good FOH sound. Without leaving that edge in the monitors as a technician you may dig yourself a hole...

Joined: 30/03/2012 20:51:58
Messages: 568
Location: Warren, PA

Everybody's different, but for me, I swear by PRE2 monitors with having run SMAART on the mains and the monitors beforehand.

First off, I have to set my system up 2-3 times a week, and every band I do is different, at most I might do the same band twice in a year, some once a year, some every couple years, others once in a life time. In other words, there is no scene, even if I saved one from last year I probably wouldn't use it. There are the exception of a couple bands that I do many times a year at clubs like the legion, moose, eagles, elks, these bands keep me working in the winter and I do them enough to have a scene made that works (I have found that it takes several gigs to really get a scene to where you want it, it's one of those things that you can really improve upon over time IMO)

So, from my perspective of no scene, 5 minutes to do the sound check, I needed a formula that can be repeated.

What makes sense to me and has definitedly been working for me, is to SMAART all of the speakers first. At that point, and I know that this is not entirely true in any way, but I also know there is more truth in it than you might think, I think of every speaker as sounding the same. And you know they should sound at least pretty similar, because I just measured them and used perimetrics to make the graphs of the sound look the same, so for all intents and purposes, at that point, at least on the drawing board, trying to solve for X, theoretically, I can call them the same.

OK, so now I have a flat emty canvas that I can paint my masterpiece on.

I flatten all GEQs, I do not ring out any speakers as I have not had feedback since the studiolives had SMAARTadded to them. Yeaaaaaaaay!! Woo Hoo!!!

I zero out all AUX monitor mixers

I then (on the iPad of course) turn down all faders to minus infinity, and unmute all the channels

I then try to get my preamps set to give me a good level, for vocals, being that I use all 58's I know where they need to be on average, so I set them all to 11 o'clock or so, same with any of my e609's on guitar amps bout 10 o'clock, 57's for drums or horns or auxilary, 10-11 o'clock, have a yell at the bass player and any other D.I.'d instrument and get a level for them, I look at the iPad meter while setting the preamp on the board (I usually don't even take the cover off the rack, maybe just slide it enough to twist the preamps), line check done.

Now I just get in there and start running the show, you do this! you do that! I start with the vocalists, stand next to one of them, have them start talking, turn it up in their monitor, start EQing the vocal till it sounds good (I call this my rough draft) "who else wants this vocal in the monitor!" Add him in every where they want him. If he has an instrument do the same thing with that next. Move to the next guy, Rinse and Repeat. This takes about 30 seconds per person, so for a 10 piece band, 5 minutes.

And not one note has come through the mains yet, in fact there is usually set break music playing through them while setting up monitors.

At this point I step out in front, bring the faders up to an educated guess as to where they should be, tell the band to go ahead and start.

I then begin to really mix and try to get the best sound possible out front. I may need to run and tweak a pre amp or two. I will do some eq'ing and begin to set compression on vocals or other channels if they are having volume issues. In theory these changes should help the monitor mixes too. That said, I do send all vocal mic's to a set of stereo subgroups, and I will often add EQ and compression to that subgroup too, knowing that it will not affect the monitors, which is good, changes to the subgroup are made for more global purposes, to make the vocals come together when more than one peron is singing at a time.

Last Thursday Night I did sound for BuddahHood form Rochester NY, the outcome of which really surprized me. I'm on a 16.4.2 SL.
5 vocals, 3 horns, guitar, bass, keys, auxilary percussion guy, conga guy, drummer. The rider had 24 channels, 10 monitors using 8 mixes

I gave them only 4 monitors using 4 seperate mixes and somehow got everything into the mixer with 16 channels not using the aux ins even. I had 3 mics on the drum kit.

The big surprise was when everyone in that band was just amazed at how quickly I could give them exactly what they wanted, so much so that the lead singer literally said my first and last name into the mic, telling the crowd of people that this guy is really good and explaining to the crowd how I stood next to him with a computer and I could hear what he heard and just make it sound great. Now how often does that happen? I can assure you all that don't know, NOT often.

That said, ya know that band likes things to sound the way I like them to sound, I have run into bands that like things to sound different than the way I like it, and those are far more diffucult to make happy, cause you are trying to find a sound that doesn't sound right to you but it does to someone else, it takes years to be able to look at and talk to someone and quickly figure out what sound they want, but I do know that don't always like what I like, luckily the BuddahHood band definitely had the same sound preferences that I do, making it an easy night.

Food for thought

StudioLive 16.4.2 in 10U + slant top OSP case
rackmount Windows 8 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
Ipad2 Wifi Griffin Survivor Case
Studio One 2.5 Pro
2 Turbosound TMS-1's (Mains)
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
2 Yamaha S115V's (for floor monitors),2 Yamaha BR 15's (for floor monitors)
3 Behringer 12" floor monitors
3 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
1 DBX Driverack 260
1 DBX 231S Graphic Eq
10 58/57 mics, 1 beta52 kick mic, 20 mic stands
2 e609 guitar amp mics
2 Radial J48 Active DI's
2 Blizzard Puck FAB 5 led lights
1 DMXIS usb to dmx controller
1 Temor 1 Alto 1 Soprano 1 Clarinet
1 Sheraton semi hollowbody electric
1 pedalboard with lots of pedals favorites are javaboost into tube screamer
1 Fender Deluxe Amp
2 Acoustic guitars, 1 elec bass, 1 acoustic bass, 1 bazooki
3 mixers and lots of other stuff I don't use in the closet
1 beer holder that clamps to the side of my mic stand with my stage name printed on it "Swingin' Steve"

Joined: 06/01/2014 09:32:35
Messages: 3

Hi presonic!!! I just love what you says about pre2
I have also start to use the pre2 setting for monitors it feels much better, and i think that i can give the artists.
a better monitors sound. And i have start to using smaart on all monitors and foh!
But i dont flatten out the mains in the lows (i always use subs) when doing rockstuff and things like that!!
As the presonus says themself in the manual that you should spot trends! And have that bump up in the lows, i have almost a falling curve down to the highs!! So you can have that lowend power in the mix!
But as i understad in your explanation i wonder if you flatten the mains totally
And the monitors also?? I flatten only the monitors (almost flatten out) i usually leave a little lows there also!
Take care!! If you want please tell me how you do?? With smaart if you flatten the mains totally and all monitors!! BR. Thomas!
Forum Index » StudioLive General Discussion
Go to: