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tracks-layers: what is it that I don't get about this?
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jens
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Joined: 18/06/2014 15:09:22
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Hi, new user here. This is my first post here.

I have a huge problem to understand how on earth layers are supposed to function. It's like either me or the developers must be insane.

From the manual:


To create a new layer on any track, open the Inspector by pressing [F4] on the keyboard and select Add Layer from the Layer selection box. The new layer is effectively like having a whole new track without duplicating inserts, sends, and I/O setup.


This I do not get to work at all here.

First of all, whenever I create a new layer, the item(s) of the main layer get(s) automatically moved to this new layer. What gives? What is the idea behind this? Is it just a crazy a bug? (now that would be a real relief, wouldnt it?) If it's not: How can I get rid of this madness? Is there any setting I somehow managed to overlook?

Then: I do not manage to select, move, copy, trim, split or mute the layer content. What I get is not actual items (as the manual implies) but instead just some weird phantom file references I ONLY can arbitrarily highlight portions of so that they automatically become the top layer. That's not what I want, not what I need, not what the manual says - let's have a look at it again:

"The new layer is effectively like having a whole new track without duplicating inserts, sends, and I/O setup."

It's not working like this at all for me. The manual describes something beautiful. What I instead see is a real ghoul of a DAW -function.

Can someone please be so kind as to enlighten me where my brain messes up here?




whitePhazer
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It can appear confusing but there are loads of video's on this subject that will explain.. Do a search on Youtube or here. Good luck.
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jens
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All videos I saw except one (which didn't really help very much either) were dealing with track-comping using layers.


edit:
But I do start to realize now that I most probably just understood the manual very differently to how it was actually meant and that the function I am looking for does not exist.

So I guess i need to use additional tracks instead and hide them when I don't need them - that's a bit sad. Coming from Reaper I am used to having a whole lot more freedom. Studio One seems to be very restricted and one-dimensional in comparison.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 18/06/2014 16:30:31

matthewgorman
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What is it that you are trying to do?
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jens
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Having different items on the same channel and possibly at the same position which I can use, copy. move, exchange and edit at free will. Items I can also hide from view and mute at will.

Actually I want what the manual promises:

"a whole new track without duplicating inserts, sends, and I/O setup"

The manual refers to an either/or situation (where I can use one OR the other layer) - "a whole new track" however I would normally interpret so that I can use it IN ADDITION to the original one - not INSTEAD



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/06/2014 16:43:44

jens
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Just to make it a bit clearer:


the function I am seeing makes perfect sense for comping. But in my opinion it does not so much for arranging, creating subtle occasional layers, etc. - so I would expect Studio One to differentiate between takes (let's call them "phantom items") and real independent editable items.

What you can do, is to turn a layer which is a phantom track containing phantom items into a real track containing editable items by turning it into the top layer and you also can bring bits of the phantom items to the top layer to turn them into real items. You can not however have real items on the non-top layers because they are just phantom layers and I don't see why that is - I'm not quite sure why Studio One is restricting my creative freedom in such an odd way while the manual promises all the freedom I desire to me.

What I was hoping for is that someone comes along and tells me "click that button there and the phantom item becomes a real one again".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/06/2014 16:55:49

matthewgorman
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There used to be a setting that expanded layers to tracks, but I don't think its there any more. Not sure why. But even that feature is not all that different that just recording takes to separate tracks. Layers to me in the current incarnation seems to be another type of folder track to organize the layout.

I wouldn't exactly say that S1 is restricting, it just has a different workflow than you are used to. It may or may not be a fit for you, but only you can decide that. All we can do on the forum is try and get a better understanding of your workflow, and explain how that works in S1. Then you get to decide if that works for you.

FWIW, I don't use layers much, if at all. I prefer to record all takes to different tracks and comp from there. I prefer to be able to use previous takes as a reference when tracking, which layers do not let me do. Duplicate track will copy the FX chain in use to a new track, and record from there.

Matt

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jens
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matthewgorman wrote:

FWIW, I don't use layers much, if at all. I prefer to record all takes to different tracks and comp from there. I prefer to be able to use previous takes as a reference when tracking, which layers do not let me do.



Exactly - you just gave a perfect example why layers aren't always super useful as they appear to work now, so we actually agree on this.

The thing is that I don't want to add dozens of individual tracks just because of a few additional items I want to have here or there on a track, be it for layering, be it for reference, be it as an alternative take or whatever.

matthewgorman
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I usually try not to agree or disagree since workflow is a very personal thing. The thing we try to do here is to understand what someone is trying to do, and to either show users where the feature is, or to suggest a different method to accomplish this. Trying to prove or disprove a point only serves to get people pissed off.

In the end, you are trying a new tool. No matter how well designed the tool is, there are going to be differences. The user needs to decide if those differences enhance or detract from how they work. Use what works for you, but keep in mind that there was a reason you tried S1 out in the first place. Do the benefits of S1 outweigh the problems you were having in reaper? You decide.

Good luck in whatever you wind up deciding. If you wind up sticking with S1, there are plenty of folks here that can help you get up and running.
Matt

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scottyo7
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Layers, Takes and Tracks... oh my!

I used to use the "Add layer" functionality when doing multi-takes of vocals. But found this to be true for me also...

mathewGorman wrote:
"I prefer to record all takes to different tracks and comp from there. I prefer to be able to use previous takes as a reference when tracking, which layers do not let me do."

I didn't understand or like the fact that when comping all the pieces of all the different "layers" were moved around when I'd only want to move one piece of one layer.

Like jens, I think the PreSonus' idea or functionality of "Add Layer" is lost to many users or just doesn't fit into their method of work flow.
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