image description


Monitor Polarity
  Forum Index » Live Sound 
Author
Message
snapnt
Prenoob

Joined: 17/01/2013 22:34:21
Messages: 50
Offline

Playing a small venue with house mains and "side fills" (actually back corner flying).
Since these fills are tied in with the mains... and everything will be coming out (hopefully we can control the volume on them... I'm bringing a ladder).... Our vocal monitors.... should I invert the signal? or just run them straight? tnx
Jerryd
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
Messages: 698
Offline

snapnt wrote:Playing a small venue with house mains and "side fills" (actually back corner flying).
Since these fills are tied in with the mains... and everything will be coming out (hopefully we can control the volume on them... I'm bringing a ladder).... Our vocal monitors.... should I invert the signal? or just run them straight? tnx


Well I am not crazy about side fill monitors in the back corner but for simplicity's sake - put some music thru the vocal monitors and invert the signal. Did it get fuller sounding or thinner sounding?

Repeat for the vocalist. Have him sing and then invert the signal and listen to see what is better. I have personally never inverted a floor monitor. Good luck!
rpark
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 30/07/2011 07:12:57
Messages: 275
Location: Lake Jackson, Texas
Offline

You might think about putting the side fills on a subgroup so you can raise them up or lower them without affecting your FOH sounds.

I agree that the only way to test phasing is to just try it and see what sounds best. Like most things, what sounds best is best.
Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2
Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 Ai
328Ai & 318SAi Speakers
Macbook Pro 15 3.06, Airport Extreme Multiband, iPad G1
Five-0 Music
The Intercoastal Pirates
[WWW] [Yahoo!] aim icon [MSN] [ICQ]
salvadoredelle
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 01/04/2011 17:49:43
Messages: 788
Location: Northern California
Offline

yea put em on a sub and run smaart and set the delay...
are you using a studio live console?
Open Labs Sound Slate Pro Custom Music production PC ( windows i7 x64, SP1) 16GB RAM, Intel (R) Core (TM) i7CPU 870 @2.93 Ghz, x64 bit /
Open Labs Nikko XXL Windows XP Based master workstation / Presonus Firstudio Tube / Presonus Studio Live 24.4.2 (2) / Studio Live 1602 (1) / StudioLive 16.4.2 (1) w/ Mac mini and ipad / Capture / Protools / Ableton / Reaper / OMS / Studio One artists & pro / Midas Venue live mixers (3) / Sound Craft 24x8x2 analog live mixer / AVID SC48 Digital console with digital snake/ Various Meyer Sound systems Ultra Series Speakers / Protools Control 24 controller/mixer with Mac tower running protools. Tannoy SRM12B Studio Monitors (old school and still sound great!) Meyer HD1 studio Monitors.
Yamaha C7 Grand Piano w/ professional MIDI (NOT a disklavier player piano but a real MIDI interface on a real C7!)
tons of outboard gear and synths, Kurzweil RM-250/PC88/ EmU E4 EX Turbo,
Spector NS2 Bass, ART Tube preAmp, Old Kay upright bass, G&L Strat /Taylor Acoustic Guitars, Mackie / QSC / JBL 4628B cabaret (Old School) / and Meyer ULTRA SERIES UPA/UPJ/UP-JUNIOR/UPM/UMS/MM4/MTS4 Speakers are the best you can get!
lowdbrent
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 13/11/2010 22:17:51
Messages: 396
Offline

salvadoredelle wrote:yea put em on a sub and run smaart and set the delay...
are you using a studio live console?


If the venue has "fills" firing from the rear corners of the room, you do not want to delay them. You would want to turn them off. They are already physically delayed roughly one millisecond per foot away from the mains now. What you need is a time machine to digitally push them back in time to the same time period as the mains.

Sorry, I am coming into this discussion late.
[Email]
lowdbrent
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 13/11/2010 22:17:51
Messages: 396
Offline

Now, if we are talking about monitors on the stage thrust, I have flipped polarity and delayed them. The only times I have done this was when the stage of a church was built out 15' from it's previous location, and the church was too cheap and uneducated to move the mains. To keep all of the noise in time for the first couple of rows, which were now closer to the monitors than the mains (like within 6'), I delayed the monitors. Other times, I have flipped polarity to help with a build up of bass frequencies. Most of the time, this is not the real fix. The real fix is moving subs or monitors by hand, because the polarity only fixes on frequency and messes up everything else.
[Email]
SwitchBack
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428
Offline

I once performed on a stage where the mains were delayed to line them up with the backfills. For the audience that is. Not for the people on stage where the backwash from FOH drove me bonkers... Don't like backfills...
snapnt
Prenoob

Joined: 17/01/2013 22:34:21
Messages: 50
Offline

Thanks for all the help.. I'll maybe I can use this (maybe) in the future.....

Murphy was working overtime here. I "assumed" since all this "house system" was there.. it all actually worked... (OK stop laughing... I know.. I'm new at this). With racks of crown amps, the "powered Mackies" flying should have tipped me off but.....
Well.. at least we had some really nice JBL subs, which , yeah, you already guessed it... didn't work (and even worse.... everything went direct to the mackies, which, might make fair monitors.. but they sure couldn't carry front of house).
Oh..and those back corner side fills.... yeah, thankfully, they didn't work either... so never had to try & figure polarity. (our stage monitors were (again unfortunately) carrying the majority of the "clean" sound.....
And.... since our front man was screaming into the mic (and just recovering from pneumonia... yeah... he couldn't breath and we had to call the paramedics and they wheeled him out on a stretcher... yes, this was the worst gig nightmare in MANY moons....

We did wheel our sound system in the next night and things sounded like they should (I did use their JBL subs tho.. with MY old bridged Crown and drove the dog out of 'em)... Whew..what a week-end..... The only good to come out of it was the manager was so impressed we kept on playing (and picked up the vocals) even while the paramedics were wheeling our guy out.... we were invited back for another week-end (Hmmm a pity gig javascript:emoticon('');

Oh.. and about those backfills... I'm hoping to talk management into letting me trace down their "troubled" system.... turn those &*(*&^%$%^ backfills and those powered "so called" mains into monitors. I'm prety sure that, at one time, there was some decent passive speakers hanging up there (what the heck are all those crown amps for??? ... But, as the previous place went bankrupt, and a chain took over the building..... yeah.... someone made off with some parts (or some 3rd grader set up the sound system)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 24/06/2014 05:56:27

SwitchBack
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428
Offline

Wheeling out the front guy, maybe you should make that part of the act! Sort of taking James Brown one step further
rpark
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 30/07/2011 07:12:57
Messages: 275
Location: Lake Jackson, Texas
Offline

Now, there's a silver lining story if there ever was one! Awesome that you guys soldiered through it, I'm sure the club owner was expecting much less than he ended up getting.
Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2
Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 Ai
328Ai & 318SAi Speakers
Macbook Pro 15 3.06, Airport Extreme Multiband, iPad G1
Five-0 Music
The Intercoastal Pirates
[WWW] [Yahoo!] aim icon [MSN] [ICQ]
 
Forum Index » Live Sound
Go to: