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Drummer calls it quits!
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formula428
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Big Joe Daddy wrote:In spite of all the progress we've made in recent months especially with the addition of the new StudioLive, our drummer has decided to call it quits. Here's what he had to say in his resignation email:

I am simply not enjoying the "recording studio" atmosphere. If you guys ever want to plug into amplifiers and just let 'er rip, give me a call.......


I find that interesting...I'm a drummer and quit a band a few months ago because I was tired of my ears getting blown out during practice and shows (we were not using my SL) from the guitar amps and bass amp. Even when I played light, the guitars had to be up to "get the attitude" of a real show...whatever that means.

I now mic all my drums (OH too) and use a pair of SCL5 (wired) IEMs at all times. Practice is done using the SL16.4.2 and the IEMs for myself. Others have the option of using IEMs or wedges with my SL. An advantage of this (especially for the original band I'm in) is that we can record our practice sessions (Studio One or Sonar) and play it back the next day. I usually listen to it at work (desk job) and note details/ideas for next practice. Of course the greatest advantage is control of the volume and instrument/vocal mix. After all, you only get 1 set of ears....
Big Joe Daddy
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formula428 wrote:
I now mic all my drums (OH too) and use a pair of SCL5 (wired) IEMs at all times. Practice is done using the SL16.4.2 and the IEMs for myself. Others have the option of using IEMs or wedges with my SL. An advantage of this (especially for the original band I'm in) is that we can record our practice sessions (Studio One or Sonar) and play it back the next day. I usually listen to it at work (desk job) and note details/ideas for next practice. Of course the greatest advantage is control of the volume and instrument/vocal mix. After all, you only get 1 set of ears....

Formula,
That's interesting to hear your story. It's a complete flip from mine. I have a couple questions for you:
1. Are you running your IEM's mono?
2. How are you able to play back your recording the next day at work? Are you saving the sessions to an MP3 and then transferring to your iPod?

Just curious how to do what you're doing with a simple and fast method.
Thx
BJD
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formula428
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Honestly, I think it just comes down to the mentality of sounding the best you can. For me, there are obvious advantages by using IEMs. It's funny too, because had someone asked me that question last year, I would have said they are overpriced and not needed. But having IEMs (prompted by getting a good deal on them!), I am able to hear everything perfectly (my back-up vox and kick included!) and I'm not going deaf at the same time. It just kills me to watch drummers play on stage with a wedge and earplugs...

Yes, I do run my IEMs mono using an adapter that I bought a while back (to get both L and R, but mono out of Aux 1). But, the reasoning behind that is simply because I don't have the connections (keep forgetting to buy them) to go stereo L+R. With respect to mono vs. stereo, the only reason why I'd opt for stereo is to improve the separation of our guitars (2) from each other in my mix. Otherwise, if I were in a 3-piece or had 1 guitar...I wouldn't mind mono L/R at all. I should add that my band isn't 100% IEM...so for the time being, I still have free Aux's to run stereo for myself.

I originally had been using Sonar Cakewalk and then exporting to a .wav file. It was very simple and fast to do it as one giant track (I had been recording the entire session as one big "song"). I already had a template for comps/FX and gains don't change too much (especially for rough listening purposes). For individual tracks, I could quickly go in and split all the tracks together and then export each piece or song as a .wav. It would take me about 30 minutes to split all the songs and export individually.

I recently started using Studio One to record. Quite honestly, I don't like the user interface nearly as much (I am very comfortable with Sonar). But, the reason why I am using it is because I like the "onboard" comps/gates/FX. Especially considering them mimic my SL in many ways, it makes setting them easier. I start with my SL settings into the computer. As I tweak them, I update the SL. And this goes back and forth, continuously improving the sound of my recordings and live/practice sound too. Of course, you're always going to deal with slight differences when playing live (such as having the kick brighter)...but that's the nature of a live show.

After I get my .wav file (or files)...I just throw them on a portable hard drive I bring to work. I play them using WIndows Media Player. I don't own an iPod so I've never gone that route. I'd imagine it would take more time, not to mention having a ton of songs to update in your iTunes (over the course of time).
Big Joe Daddy
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Good stuff Formula. I'll share a bit of what I've learned in recent weeks and I continue to try and get my arms around all this new technology.

Since we're a 5-piece most of the time, we've been running mono auxes to everyone's IEM's. A couple of weeks back when we had just four of us, I setup my aux(s) out in stereo. I panned a few things just slightly, like drums and guitars, and I think a slight pan on a couple of the vocals. (We're running a Roland TD-10 kit with just the L&R outs.) I gotta tell you I really liked the difference. It made me start thinking about a 24.4.2 because of the 10 auxes. But then I thought, 'Where does it end?'. The 16 channel SL suits us fine for now so I'm gonna stick with it and continue to run the mono monitors. We're running a Rode NT5 for an audience mic that livened things up a little. Still like the stereo IEM's the best.

I don't quite follow you on the adapters you're talking about for a stereo monitor mix. What most folks do is just use the 'Link' button on the SL. If you have Aux 1 selected, and press the Stereo 'Link' button, it will link Aux 1 with Aux 2, applying all the Fat Channel settings from Aux 1 to Aux 2, and enable the pan control for left to right panning of the mix.

All that being said, we're still running mono auxes for monitors because we only have the 6 auxes to work with. Recently I ordered some TRS 'Y' cables so I can try daisy chaining some of the aux outs. I was thinking that the drummer and the bass player might be satisfied with the same monitor mix. That would free up another aux. Haven't tried it yet, still waiting on the 'Y' cables.

Just thinkin.......

I'm deep into experimentation right now to see what will be the best scenario I can come up with. So thanks again for posting your setup. Please keep us posted with anything you come up with.
Best,
BJD
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formula428
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Big Joe Daddy wrote:I don't quite follow you on the adapters you're talking about for a stereo monitor mix. What most folks do is just use the 'Link' button on the SL. If you have Aux 1 selected, and press the Stereo 'Link' button, it will link Aux 1 with Aux 2, applying all the Fat Channel settings from Aux 1 to Aux 2, and enable the pan control for left to right panning of the mix.


But, the 1/4" jack from Aux 1 (or 2 thru 6) is a balanced mono jack...right? So, the "Link" button (enabling a stereo mix) would only be stereo if you took the L from Aux 1 and the R from Aux 2...? Or do I have this all wrong?

Honestly, I never tried anything up to this point...just assumed...
MichaelAlanDawson
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formula428 wrote:But, the 1/4" jack from Aux 1 (or 2 thru 6) is a balanced mono jack...right? So, the "Link" button (enabling a stereo mix) would only be stereo if you took the L from Aux 1 and the R from Aux 2...? Or do I have this all wrong?


Correct. Just like linking two input channels, linking two AUX sends consumes two jacks. The SL16 can, at most, provide three stereo AUX sends.
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formula428
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So, then you'd have to have a "Y" adapter (dual M mono to single F stereo) to run a pair of "stereo" IEMs.
Big Joe Daddy
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formula428 wrote:So, then you'd have to have a "Y" adapter (dual M mono to single F stereo) to run a pair of "stereo" IEMs.

Formula,
That depends....
Most of the wireless transmitters for IEM's have two inputs, giving the user the ability to run their buds in either mono or stereo. You simply have to go into the menu setup on the transmitter and set it to either stereo or mono. So to make it clear, here's what you'd do with the SL 16.4.2 to run stereo IEMs.

Wireless Setup
1. 'Select' Aux 1 on the SL followed by the 'Link' button. This groups Aux 1 and Aux 2 to a LT and RT stereo out.
2. Run a 1/4" TRS cable from your SL Aux 1 out to the LT input on your wireless transmitter. (depending on the inputs of your transmitter you may have to run a TRS to XLR cable adapter)
3. Run a 1/4" TRS cable from your SL Aux 2 out to the RT input on your wireless transmitter.
4. Press the Mix/Pan button on the Aux 2 of the SL to pan things the way you like.
You're good to go in stereo.

Wired Setup
If you're running a wired setup to your IEMs, you'll want to run a headphone amp or personal mixer of some sort, ideally with a limiter built in to save your ears from any transient accidental blasts.
1. 'Select' Aux 1 on the SL followed by the 'Link' button. This groups Aux 1 and Aux 2 to a LT and RT stereo out.
2. Run a 1/4" TRS 'Y' cable (Dual TRS Males to Single TRS stereo Female) from your SL Aux 1 and Aux 2.
3. Run a 1/4" TRS cable from the 'Y' adapter to your headphone amp or personal mixer input.
(We run some of those little Rolls PM50's and they work pretty good for our needs.)
4. Plug your IEM's into the personal mixer.
5. Press the Mix/Pan button on the Aux 2 of the SL to pan things the way you like.
You're good to go in stereo.

There may be other ways of doing it but I've tried the method above and it works fine.
Best,
BJD

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formula428
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Big Joe Daddy wrote:
formula428 wrote:So, then you'd have to have a "Y" adapter (dual M mono to single F stereo) to run a pair of "stereo" IEMs.


Wired Setup
If you're running a wired setup to your IEMs, you'll want to run a headphone amp or personal mixer of some sort, ideally with a limiter built in to save your ears from any transient accidental blasts.
1. 'Select' Aux 1 on the SL followed by the 'Link' button. This groups Aux 1 and Aux 2 to a LT and RT stereo out.
2. Run a 1/4" TRS 'Y' cable (Dual TRS Males to Single TRS stereo Female) from your SL Aux 1 and Aux 2.
3. Run a 1/4" TRS cable from the 'Y' adapter to your headphone amp or personal mixer input.
(We run some of those little Rolls PM50's and they work pretty good for our needs.)
4. Plug your IEM's into the personal mixer.
5. Press the Mix/Pan button on the Aux 2 of the SL to pan things the way you like.
You're good to go in stereo.


I didn't realize headphone amps had 2 inputs, L and R.

I'm currently using the limiter on the Aux FAT channel, but I do realize that I need to get a headphone amp. I do have a small mixer, an old (but trusty!) mackie 1202 (built in the early 90's, not the cheap ones from today)...but it obviously does not have a limiter built-in. Plus, I'm the only one who uses the SL (the others don't know how to mix, let alone how to run a digital console (or analog for that matter).

Like I said, for my purposes, I really don't use stereo and don't "need" it...but if I find a good deal on a quality headphone amp (with a limiter), I'll get it.


Thanks
~Zach

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 30/09/2010 01:47:37

Big Joe Daddy
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Zach,
You can get those Rolls PM50s for $25 bucks or so all day long on eBay. Just a thought. I got the little mic stand brackets for them. Super convenient. It allows each person to control the level of their own mix. You still have to create the mix on the SL Aux but the musician has control of the level of the signal as well as control over their own mic level. Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLLS-PM50S-PERSONAL-MONITOR-AMP-POWER-SUPPLY-/350398558957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519561b2ed
BJD
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formula428
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Not to completely hijack this thread...but do the headphone amps have a built-in limiter?
Big Joe Daddy
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formula428 wrote:Not to completely hijack this thread...but do the headphone amps have a built-in limiter?

No limiter on the Rolls PM50s. My Mipro-808R wireless unit has one built in.
BJD

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 19/10/2010 08:30:44

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ltdpro
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I tried to read all of the responses to the drummers resignation over IEM's. I di not see anyy refrence to adding a tuch of the room to the mix. In other words...adding an audiecne microphone or stage microphone into the mix to allow for some ambience. I know some guys do this with their IEM mixes. Even though the drummer quit...can this concept help in the future for all users?
Danny cat
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I am drummer of 20+ years and switched to IEM's a couple of years ago. I wouldn't go back to wedges if you paid me. I've always liked the processed sound drums have in the studio and that is one way of achieving that in a live setting. It helps that I mix monitors and FOH from stage so any adjustments are at arms length and the Buttkicker mounted on the throne gives you back the feeling of low-end. Sure you have to mic the whole kit (even cymbals) in a small venue but then you have everything there for a good board mix, not to mention saving my ears from the high-end of the snare drum and cymbals. I am cut-off from the band and the crowd as far as interaction goes but my primary purpose for playing is to sound as good as possible.
Big Joe Daddy
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ltdpro wrote:I tried to read all of the responses to the drummers resignation over IEM's. I di not see anyy refrence to adding a tuch of the room to the mix. In other words...adding an audiecne microphone or stage microphone into the mix to allow for some ambience. I know some guys do this with their IEM mixes. Even though the drummer quit...can this concept help in the future for all users?


Yeah Itdpro. Lot's of folks are adding a 'room mic' to the mix. We're doing it with a single Rode NT5. Just about anything will work. We've also found that the IEM's with the foam tips (the universal variety) still allow enough bleed to give the user the ability to hear a little bit of what's going on outside of the monitor mix.

I recently went from the Westone UM3's with foam tips to custom molded Ultimate Ears U11's. Man, the difference is measurable. With the custom molds, it shuts everything out and I mean everything. I live them because the fit so snug you never have to fuss with them to keep them in right. The sound quality is over the top. Very clean, tons of low end.
Just my two pennies worth.
BJD
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