image description


the open air hiss
  Forum Index » Studio One General Discussion 
Author
Message
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

that is the major problem i am dealing with... it ain't much but i am somewhat of a perfectionist and i want it all gone the tracks sent to me to mix and master... mainly four tracks of an acoustic guitar recorded into a mic. i can hear 'air' at all times during the playback. i use a gate on my hardware (guitar rig) to make things quiet but i can't seem to remove the low hiss using our gate without affect the full ring of the strings and their tone. any ideas on how to clean it? the 'client' has no problem with it and don't mind it due to this work being for demo purposes... but it bothers me! i could leave it since the owner don't care (i have reduced it quite a bit) since he was the culprit but if i just leave it then i don't LEARN a damn thing. and i want to know ways to remedy for future references.

the second problem i have is at the other end of the spectrum... first two parts of the vocals... singer got in too close to the mic because there is two small feedback squeals from the mic. no more than a couple of milliseconds each but they are like nails on a chalkboard to me. again... i did not record this so i have to deal with what is there.

i know izotopes RX3 deals with these very easily but i don't have RX although i could get a fully functional 10 day trial so that is an idea. RX3 has already won an Emmy for it's doctoring technology. that thing isolates sounds within sounds... WOW. but again i don't have it and can't afford $349 for the standard edition.

one thing to note on the squeal... it is in the tail of the waveform so i can't just clip it out like with most noise.

give me a couple of ideas if you can. this is not a 'deal' breaker by no means because the artist knows about it and has written it off in his book. but again i want to learn and i would love to remedy and surprise him

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/02/2014 23:52:02

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jemusic
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 16/12/2010 14:14:20
Messages: 286
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Offline

Are you talking room tone in the background or the sound of the room caused by the guitar. What do you mean by 'air' The word 'air' is normally used to describe top end sheen.
[WWW]
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

the room space. not reverb part room recording is fine. i am talking about when the guitar is not being played... the 'quiet' ain't quiet ... the open air on the mic is like a low tape hiss and is constant throughout. you don't hear it during the transients or strums they are covered but i do hear it as the note tapers off or during pauses.

well that is why i am a noob... air to me is part nitrogen and oxygen now if i say 'airy' then i mean open sheen to a tone. but that is just me

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 28/02/2014 00:42:39

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jemusic
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 16/12/2010 14:14:20
Messages: 286
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Offline

Ok no worries I understand. The correct term to describe the sound room makes when there is basically nothing going on in the room is 'Room Tone'

Well you might want to try a downward expander and set it up so that as soon as the guitar is present it will basically open and let the sound pass. Hopefully the room tone will be masked by the guitar itself. When the guitar stops or starts getting quiet the downward expander should kick in and drop the gain. Even 10 dB drop would be effective. The speed of the downward expander kicking in is also important.You dont want it too fast like a gate, it needs to be slower and more gentle.

What can happen is you may notice the room tone going away as well as the quiter notes fade so it might not work. Adding a short tight revrb can actually hide this to a certain degree too.

The downward expander tends to work better when the room tone is softer and the signal is a little louder.

Noise reduction algorithms can work on room tone but they tend to effect the guitar sound itself.

Do you mainly notice the room tone when the guitar is not playing and is it concealed when it is playing.

[WWW]
LMike
Baconator
[Avatar]

Joined: 19/02/2011 12:02:34
Messages: 8233
Offline

If you're going full time you might want to pick up Waves X-Noise if you can get it without buying a bundle.

It solves problems like this very well and very transparently (if you use it right).
Studio One Tips For Newbs

"So.... Bitwig. I wonder what's queued up next in line on the drama list?"
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

yes jemusic... it is only audible to my ears at the far end of the tone taper and when the guitar is not playing. the rest is masked. i used a mild reverb to remove what i have so far and it did surprisingly well at removal per se. that was my first thought after the gate failed was to just blend the hiss in with a reverb... i used openAIR and trimmed an impulse. i was really amazed my idea worked so well (not perfect but not bad... helluva lot better than the original track)
Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

well byron sent me a message and said he was gonna redo the guitar tracks (i reckon because i am concerned about the hiss) but i am still gonna work on what i got because i want to learn to do it. we all know THIS problem arises all the time.

seems he sees my pitiful abilities and likes what he hears and now has ideas on how much better his demo CAN sound. so he wants to avoid the "turd polishing" lol. that is GOOD... means he learns something too

i'll look into X-Noise LMike... maybe they have something i can afford. and je... i will look into the downward expander thing and see if it is softer than a gate. it was way too harsh and and affected too much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 28/02/2014 01:30:28

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
matthewgorman
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/02/2011 21:30:31
Messages: 3219
Location: Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey.
Offline

now if i say 'airy' then i mean open sheen to a tone. but that is just me


And in these parts, airy meant someone in the van had mexican food.

You're going to have a hard time eliminating it. Even with an expander, on a delicate track, you will hear the expander working, and it may take away to openness of the track. It may be strangled too much, so to speak. You may find as suggested above, that going in the other direction may work better. Mask it with some reverb, may be more suited to the track.

What else is in the song? Is it just guitar and vox, or are there other tracks to help hide it?
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

there is a duet vox track and two single vox tracks.

this is the song. a rough video they did

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

me... i hear a crescendo of strings in that round and a bit of piano... but hey it ain't my tune. but an excellent tune none the less. and to give them a thumb's up... byron just got sponsored by telefunken and that is the new mic they just sent him in the vid... and probably the tracks i am working on. so they ARE moving up in the world.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 28/02/2014 02:21:35

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
matthewgorman
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/02/2011 21:30:31
Messages: 3219
Location: Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey.
Offline

Dude looks like Bono.

Very nice tune. Very dynamic, which will make your task harder. I think using a gate or even an expander is going to be obvious.

Maybe go in a totally different direction. Use a small club ir in openair, and maybe a fake vinyl effect, and give it an old live club record feel. Dont go for perfection. Give the air some character.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

i used a mild reverb to remove what i have so far and it did surprisingly well at removal per se. that was my first thought after the gate failed was to just blend the hiss in with a reverb... i used openAIR and trimmed an impulse. i was really amazed my idea worked so well (not perfect but not bad... helluva lot better than the original track)


that is the only way i could affect the 'removal' without affecting the tones but i was just meshing it into an IR... like spreading the 'crappy icing' thinner on the cake so to speak. i could only think to mask it. but he is redoing the guitars as i type. gardeners are gone and before the storm rolls in. they live in cali

but thanks gorman

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 28/02/2014 02:53:04

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
Bub
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/08/2013 22:12:35
Messages: 468
Location: Peculiar, MO
Offline

I'm guessing you're talking about that horn (tweeter) sizzle sound being recorded when there is silence.

Sound Forge has noise removal that works really well on things like this. Audacity does as well if you don't have Sound Forge, and it's free. I've never tried it in Audacity though, but I see it's there.
"I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with my tongue than spend one more minute with you."
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

you are right shane it is more of a sizzle sound ... but i have always called it a hiss all my life. i will check audacity since i don't have sound forge. thanks

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 28/02/2014 03:29:22

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jemusic
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 16/12/2010 14:14:20
Messages: 286
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Offline

No he is not I dont think. He is talking about the sound of the room (room tone) in the quieter passages I guess.

Want to find out what room tone sounds like. Pick the quietest time of the day or night. Set up a mic and put it into Omni mode. Crank the gain right up and record what you hear. That is room tone.

The ear is very good at shutting it down and almost removing it but in reality it is there and the mic wont hide it in any fashion.
[WWW]
 
Forum Index » Studio One General Discussion
Go to: