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Easy to use?
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VG
Prenoob

Joined: 13/10/2010 22:44:33
Messages: 41
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I am planning to switch from Logic Pro 9 to a better DAW. That's how I found S1.

I was very happy when I read that S1 is easy to use, but after I tried it (demo) I was disappointed regarding some of its basics.


Console:
Particularly - there is no track names in the Console, but duplicates instruments without providing the name of the track = loosing time on identifying the track = not intuitive, not easy to use. Why did you put the column - Instruments (at the left) WITHOUT any relation to the track (names, ...) if you have it in the mixer? Bring it in the mixer and remove the column.


Tracks and Info:
If I press the Info - the displayed info is not in alliance with the track, but on the top. Why? It's not suitable and confusing. Info also missed vital info/features of the track - the list of instruments, plugings, quantize, etc. Why S1 din't make it similar to Logic Pro which is more useful regarding this? This would make the work with instruments/pluging much easier and intuitive.

Logically - working with tracks requires instruments/plugings within the track info as the primary location and the Console should be the secondary. That would be intuitive and easy to use.

Solo and Mute buttons have a dash on the top and due to this they look like something else. Why didn't you remove the dash and increase the height of the letters to make them more recognizable?

Where is the Freeze button?


Automation:
There is enough space for automation, instruments, plugins, .. buttons, which will eliminate necessity for additional clicking in order to switch. I did not understand the purpose of additional automation-track - it was placed at the bottom without any marker/relation to the track. Why didn't you play with it right under the track?

S1 has list of Vendors (at the right) but did not divided it on instruments and Pluging.

I understand that people have different taste, but S1 can easily satisfy both. For me - placing instruments/pluging in the Console as the primary location, no track names in the Console, etc. is illogical and makes me uncomfortable to use S1 - each time I come to S1 makes me a little upset with the illogical design.


The bottom line:
Although that S1 made many things great, but absence all vital info/options/features in one place forced the user to do more clicks and for those, who before S1 did not have such obstacle, it makes working with S1 annoying enough to skip it.

Correct me if I am wrong.
AudioCave
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Joined: 22/04/2009 13:02:36
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No, I wouldn't say you're wrong about any of it although I'm not sure I understand all of it fully. Like...

...there is no track names in the Console, but duplicates instruments without providing the name of the track = loosing time on identifying the track = not intuitive, not easy to use.


Not sure exactly what you mean there or the other part...

Why did you put the column - Instruments (at the left) WITHOUT any relation to the track (names, ...) if you have it in the mixer? Bring it in the mixer and remove the column.


I don't quite understand what you mean there either so I'll reserve comment other than to say that the instrument rack (if that's what you mean) can be hidden, and every track in the mixer that's an instrument track has the instrument name listed right at the top and the track name at the bottom.

But again, I'm not even sure if that's what you mean above so we may be talking about two different things.

Thanks. Best of luck in your search. Logic is a great DAW and I have no doubt it won't be easy replacing it.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 14/10/2010 02:28:00

fullerene
Prenoob

Joined: 29/07/2010 00:01:40
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Thank you for posting your observations - certainly food for thought.
I'm curious as to whether you found aspects of the program easy to use.
I had used and attempted to learn a number of others and for me there are any number of huge advantages to S1 Pro over any other DAW , in no particular order:

1. Drag and Drop -
2. Intuitive routing
3. Ease finding files, settings
4. Easy naming convention
5. Built-in Mastering Suite
6. Easy Export - built in support for sound cloud
7. Easy MP3 publication
8. Clean interface -

integration with Presonus hardware makes setup mostly intuitive and quite easy -

I understand your concerns about automation and track duplication - but I would encourage you to look at the bigger picture with this product and its development team. I really believe every time I launch this program that they have created something that is a game changer..if you end up going a different direction, I hope you continue to keep an eye on the developments here..

all the best
f



VG
Prenoob

Joined: 13/10/2010 22:44:33
Messages: 41
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No Track names:



Info is poor:



Compare it to Logic Pro:

Mixer:



Tracks:




P.S. Where is the Freeze button in S1?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 05:21:54

AudioCave
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VG wrote:P.S. Where is the Freeze button in S1?


No freeze, no freeze button. If you search for that term in the PDF manual it should come up empty. If you're trying to find out what is and isn't there yet a good read of (or some random searches of) the manual for things you can't locate will probably help but no, it doesn't have a "freeze" function yet.

Bounce and stem rendering for now.

Anyway, I can't see the graphics you posted. Thanks.

P.S. I hope my replies didn't sound curt... that's just kinda the way I write. But if you have some general questions about naming tracks or workflow related to your concerns, there's some really cool people here like Max and Motoko who are producers that can probably get more into their own personal workflows.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 04:17:06

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zombie
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How long did you "try it?" I think when somebody gets comfotable with a new type of application - whether it be a new DAW, or new shoes - I think we automatically compare it against our last. This usually comes with a hasty comparison. If we take a bit of time and remember that nothing is perfect, and fundamentals are subjective in an ever changing forum, we can have smoother experiences when learning new material.
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VG
Prenoob

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zombie wrote:How long did you "try it?" I think when somebody gets comfotable with a new type of application - whether it be a new DAW, or new shoes - I think we automatically compare it against our last. This usually comes with a hasty comparison. If we take a bit of time and remember that nothing is perfect, and fundamentals are subjective in an ever changing forum, we can have smoother experiences when learning new material.


I can compare S1 with other DAWs, which I used as a newcomer. E.g. SONY Acid Pro was so easy to use that I even never looked in the manual or had any questions. Unfortunately, SONY Acid Pro had some bugs which sometimes ruin all pleasure of working with it.

Samplitude is also very easy to use, but it is not for Mac. I also had no problems or major complains with it.

S1 vs. the above is not that easy/intuitive overall. Yes, S1 made some things much better than others, but...

The biggest portion of time I spent with a DAW is automation, next - Instruments/Plugins, ... the least I use is the Mixer (or Console in S1). therefore, what I expect from a DAW is extreme intuitivity easy-to-use automation and Instruments/Plugins options. For me, S1 did not placed all vital options in one place or in a logical chain.

P.S. I see the images which I sent, but if you do not see them, please, tell me how to upload them from my computer.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 05:39:00

VG
Prenoob

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P.S. I expect that the DAW which will satisfy all my basic needs is the coming Samplitude Pro 12 because they promised to automate some inconveniences. But who know when it will come. So, the point I am here is to get a clear answer to the question is - does S1 think that what I wrote make sense or not. If it make sense - will they fix it and when (approximately)?

I can live with Logic Pro until I will find a better solution.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 05:32:37

AudioCave
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I see your pics now ... thanks for posting. Those Logic pics kinda refreshed my memory.

All I can say to you is to read the manual (if you find it unintuitive, that's really the only next step in that case) and have the daw open at the same time and try out everything on the interface. I'm pretty sure there are things going on there related to some of your comments that you're not aware of yet. It still may not be the right daw for you but it seems to me some of your early impressions may be based on just not yet knowing how everything works in some cases.

OTOH, I fully agree about the info view. There are some other informational things that should probably be there which aren't yet.

Read the manual and play with it or both at the same time. If you still don't like it, don't stress over it too much, it happens. There are a few really great daws I tried that I just couldn't really stand working in so if it doesn't fit... it doesn't fit.

In some ways Studio One is (imo) a bit of a "minimalist experience" being relatively new and you're probably not the only person who feels it may not be quite ready for you yet. Not unusual. I do think S1 is more intuitive to Cubase users than some others so yeah, it may not be that intuitive to some people.

Take care my friend.

P.S. You wouldn't be "vglink" from that other forum would you?

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 06:47:15

VG
Prenoob

Joined: 13/10/2010 22:44:33
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AudioCave wrote:All I can say to you is to read the manual

Finally - you indirectly admitted that S1 is not that intuitive... That's what i am talking about.

Can you make it intuitive enough that any newcomer could use it as easy as e.g. Samplitude - I mean without the manual?

True, I did not read the manual because in my opinion - if almost everything can be done without reading the manual, then the DAW is very good and high quality (the code).

If the user must read the manual to do basic, then the organization and the quality is not the best. Why? For the same reason why the better is that one, who can express the essence of the big in short; replace a page of codes with a paragraph, etc.

Can you explain me e.g. how can I put the names of the tracks into the Console (don't mix up it with the name of Instruments)? If you will say me - read the manual, then sorry - S1 is not for me.

Just imagine - you came to a public toilet which has no signs of is it for Men of Women - what will you think about the builder? Same I think about S1 when e.g. I see the list of Instruments without any reference to the track... (S1 Console)

It's not that horrible to make a mistake, as not to learn it.

If S1 does not want to admit its shortcomings, then how it is going to fix them?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 07:26:38

sunmachine
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VG wrote:No Track names:





You can rename both the instruments and the channels.
Click on the little triangle in front of an intrument name like Play 2 and select Rename from the menu.
A channel like Out 1 can be renamed by double clicking on its name.

BTW: The Instrument Tracks in the arrange area are not the same as the channels in the console. You can route several Instrument Tracks to the same channel.
That's why it makes sense that they can have different names, whereas Audio Tracks always have the same names as the corresponding channels.
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VG
Prenoob

Joined: 13/10/2010 22:44:33
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sunmachine wrote:
VG wrote:No Track names:





You can rename both the instruments and the channels.
Click on the little triangle in front of an intrument name like Play 2 and select Rename from the menu.
A channel like Out 1 can be renamed by double clicking on its name.

BTW: The Instrument Tracks in the arrange area are not the same as the channels in the console. You can route several Instrument Tracks to the same channel.
That's why it makes sense that they can have different names, whereas Audio Tracks always have the same names as the corresponding channels.


At the very beginning, making a mess of Instruments in the Console doesn't make sense. Make sense when each track has its name and number in the Console = the user does not need to look for a track in order to add an instrument or plugin... When the user want to route several Instrument Tracks to the same channel - that's his problem - I mean he can mess with instruments as much as he wants but the default settings must be intuitive and user friendly.

Manual matching of the Instruments with tracks in the Console is poor programming - it must be automated as e.g. in Logic.
themuzic
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VG wrote:
AudioCave wrote:All I can say to you is to read the manual

Finally - you indirectly admitted that S1 is not that intuitive... That's what i am talking about.

Can you make it intuitive enough that any newcomer could use it as easy as e.g. Samplitude - I mean without the manual?

If S1 does not want to admit its shortcomings, then how it is going to fix them?


I'm sorry sir. This is completely unbelievable and a complete lack of true understanding on your part, in my opinion. Not intended as a personal attack, simply an observation. Having owned every version of Samplitude and finding it so "Unintuitive" after each release, I doubt anyone here even knows I own it, as I have been very unhappy with each lack-luster attempt at simplicity.

Then you compare Studio One to Acid Pro (which I also own a few later versions)? I teach and instruct clients how to use a few DAWs (Cubase, Studio One, Nuendo), setup home studios and configure equipment as well as do instructional videos on all of them.

If you find Samplitude more feature intensive and more informative in some areas, fine. I'll give you that. But you are sadly incorrect when you say Studio One is "Unintuitive.

I need Samplitude and Acid Pro for clients that bring in projects in those formats so I use them from time to time so my response is not just a "Fanboy" rant. But be advised I am an S1 fanboy.

All that said, I remind you again that this is not a personal attack on your intelligence but it IS my attempt to point out that I feel you did not work with Studio One seriously and long enough to really see how Intuitive it is.

I do hope you receive my post as it was intended.

BEWARE! READING BEYOND THIS POINT COULD BE DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AS WELL AS EDUCATIONAL AND ENTERTAINING ALL AT THE SAME TIME.


---DISCLAIMER---THIS THREAD DOES NOT REFLECT THE OVERALL ATMOSPHERE OF THIS FORUM BUT IS INTENDED AS COMEDY RELIEF AND AN ENTERTAINING BREAK FROM THE NORM!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/10/2010 03:42:16

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Motoko
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Well, all I can say is that the easy and intuitive part are very personal.

I've been using S1 from the get go and haven't opened the manual once. And I do think I know my way around the program pretty well. That's also coming from someone with no real experience with any DAW other than a quick dable in Logic, Ableton, Sonar and ACID.

If you have learned you brain to think a certain way, switching is never easy. If I learned myself to come into my house through the backdoor over the years, then changing to entering the house through the front door may seem quite a challenge. Even if that means I'm home five minutes earlier.

It's all about the approach. There's a lot of audio software out there that uses the mixer or the console as the center of the universe and I'm happy S1 doesn't.

I agree it may seem somewhat confusing, but Audio Channels and Midi tracks are separate things and they are treated separately within S1. When I drag an instrument to the arrangement it will create an audio track with the name of the instrument for quick reference. I will then do my housekeeping and rename the audio channel to what I need it to be, as well as the midi channel.

It's basically that the piano players name is Frank, yet the label on the desk says Grand Piano (and not Frank).

Plugins and Instruments are devided on to separate tabs in the browser and allow for different views. I usually have the instrument tab on vendor and the plugin page on Category as I tend to use mostly VST3 plugins.

As for automation? I think there's some real intuitive stuff going on in S1, for me that is. The only thing I'm missing is something like Hyperdraw at the moment.

But it seems pretty logical to me as far as automation goes.

a) you do it within the midi editor if you want to have your automation glued to your clip.

b) hit the 'A' button to set up automation directly under an instrument track, which I use a lot for performance / creative automation

c) set up an independant instrument track for all other automation.

Setting these up is very easy, no first creating tracks. Then selecting what you want automated, no just drag the parameter from the parameter window on the control link system in the upper left corner by using the hand icon. Drag it onto the arrangement and everything is set-up automatically.

Or just right click and select the automation option and your also good to go.

Using the control link system to map parameters to midi controls is also the most intuitive system I've seen so far on any DAW.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 14/10/2010 09:32:18

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Thaty
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Joined: 05/10/2010 10:43:59
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VG, Console, Automation, The bottom line, etc.. I have the same feeling about that. It is so obviously, especially I can't understand why devs decided to place automation to separate track not connected to source instrument/Audio track. And there is even no keyb action to hide them This is just ridicules
 
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