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akg perception 420????????????
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crow
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just wondering if anybody has this mic???akg perception 420 its at 199.00$ is this a good mic im using mxl v250, joe meek jm 47a will this be a stepup will i get pro sound from it for vocals????
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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Gizzmo0815
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Not really. You won't likely see much of a difference from what you have now. In that $200-$300 range there really isn't a whole lot you can do to drastically improve sound quality. Most mics at that price point will be pretty transparent, often a little bit harsh in the high ranges, an the AKG perception line doesn't really change that much.

In order to truly notice a drastic difference you'd have to bump up to a significantly higher price range. And really what you're paying for at that point is uniqueness. This is why the Neuman high end mics are so famous. Not because they're "transparent" but quite the opposite. And you pay for that sound.

At the $300-$400 price point you can get excellent QUALITY meaning built well and long lasting with a generally similar sound to those you'd pay $200 for so I like to recommend some of those. ADK makes excellent microphones in this price range. The A6 in particular is one that you'd never get sick of, and it's very versatile. For slightly different colors the Vienna and Hamburg are excellent also.

Mics are an area where you get what you pay for. Often I've found that the cheaper the mic, the cheaper the build quality. They may sound fine, but might not be very durable or might not last.

I'd say stop spending at this point and save up for two or three high end pieces of gear for your setup. Drop a grand or so on a nice preamp and another $800-1000 on a mic. Then you'll stop worrying about always upgrading to the next best thing. You'll spend less in the long run and you'll stop looking for more gear. Note, of course, that recording space will always be the thing that MOST affects your sound. So if you're recording in a bathroom...expect it to sound like it was recorded in a bathroom. It's often better to spend money to use a nicer space like a hall somewhere or something like that.

My rambling $0.02 on the matter
Computer: Lenovo y560, 2.0 GHz quad core, 8 gb RAM, Win 7 (x64)
Presonus "Stuff": Studio One Pro, Presonus Firestudio Mobile, Studiolive 16.0.2, Faderport
crow
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Thanks gizzmo i am going to kick this very very bad habbit and except that i need a 1000 mic and 1000 pre to get that pro sound so do u think with my setup i can achieve a radio ready cd?
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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overcoat
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Gizzmo0815 wrote:Not really. You won't likely see much of a difference from what you have now. In that $200-$300 range there really isn't a whole lot you can do to drastically improve sound quality. Most mics at that price point will be pretty transparent, often a little bit harsh in the high ranges, an the AKG perception line doesn't really change that much.

In order to truly notice a drastic difference you'd have to bump up to a significantly higher price range. And really what you're paying for at that point is uniqueness. This is why the Neuman high end mics are so famous. Not because they're "transparent" but quite the opposite. And you pay for that sound.

At the $300-$400 price point you can get excellent QUALITY meaning built well and long lasting with a generally similar sound to those you'd pay $200 for so I like to recommend some of those. ADK makes excellent microphones in this price range. The A6 in particular is one that you'd never get sick of, and it's very versatile. For slightly different colors the Vienna and Hamburg are excellent also.

Mics are an area where you get what you pay for. Often I've found that the cheaper the mic, the cheaper the build quality. They may sound fine, but might not be very durable or might not last.

I'd say stop spending at this point and save up for two or three high end pieces of gear for your setup. Drop a grand or so on a nice preamp and another $800-1000 on a mic. Then you'll stop worrying about always upgrading to the next best thing. You'll spend less in the long run and you'll stop looking for more gear. Note, of course, that recording space will always be the thing that MOST affects your sound. So if you're recording in a bathroom...expect it to sound like it was recorded in a bathroom. It's often better to spend money to use a nicer space like a hall somewhere or something like that.

My rambling $0.02 on the matter



I had my eye on the A6 for a while. I'm still gonna pick one up, but i found a great local deal on a Blue Reactor mic. I love it. it sounds awesome on acoustic guitar and vocals so far. I also picked up a GAP pre-73 and had it modded from the guys at ZenPro. I knew i wasn't gonna be able to afford a $1000 mic and a $1000 pre. I'm pretty happy with what i have for now. I always want more though It never ends. what an expensive addiction!

Studio One Pro w/ latest build // i7 2.6 ghz mac mini w/ 16gb ram // RME Fireface UCX // Yamaha HS50m's // GAP Pre-73 modded // Blue Reactor mic // Shure sm7b, 57 & 58 // Roland TR8 // Faderport // Padkontrol & Edirol pcr-50 // Arturia V-collection 3.0, V-station, Synthmaster 2.5, Komplete 9 and various other vst's...
Gizzmo0815
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crow wrote:Thanks gizzmo i am going to kick this very very bad habbit and except that i need a 1000 mic and 1000 pre to get that pro sound so do u think with my setup i can achieve a radio ready cd?


You don't NEED a $1000 mic and a $1000 pre. That's not really what I meant. BUT, if you save up and make sure that the equipment you're buying is good quality (and that might mean $500 for you, it really does depend a bit) and has a good reputation. Then you'll stop worrying about it and won't have to keep wondering if you should get that next thing to make your sound better or whatever. If your gear is top notch...then you can be assured that the weakness is YOU and your skills I don't mean that you aren't skilled I just mean that you can stop thinking about gear and start focusing on your art.

Radio-ready? Not in the way you're thinking I suspect. But a good track is a good track is a good track. Honestly anything you make in your home studio in your bedroom isn't going to end up on the radio anyhow (unless maybe it's a college or local station or something like that). The industry that controls major radio play is still very much alive and well, you would almost certainly have to get your music through a label to get onto mainstream radio. But best thing would probably be to just not worry about that. Just make music...show it off where and when you can to people that might be able to increase visibility, and if it happens for you then the "radio" thing will work itself out in the end. Or continue down the independent route like you did with your last album. There's plenty of room in that market for gathering a following.
Computer: Lenovo y560, 2.0 GHz quad core, 8 gb RAM, Win 7 (x64)
Presonus "Stuff": Studio One Pro, Presonus Firestudio Mobile, Studiolive 16.0.2, Faderport
Gizzmo0815
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overcoat wrote:
Gizzmo0815 wrote:Not really. You won't likely see much of a difference from what you have now. In that $200-$300 range there really isn't a whole lot you can do to drastically improve sound quality. Most mics at that price point will be pretty transparent, often a little bit harsh in the high ranges, an the AKG perception line doesn't really change that much.

In order to truly notice a drastic difference you'd have to bump up to a significantly higher price range. And really what you're paying for at that point is uniqueness. This is why the Neuman high end mics are so famous. Not because they're "transparent" but quite the opposite. And you pay for that sound.

At the $300-$400 price point you can get excellent QUALITY meaning built well and long lasting with a generally similar sound to those you'd pay $200 for so I like to recommend some of those. ADK makes excellent microphones in this price range. The A6 in particular is one that you'd never get sick of, and it's very versatile. For slightly different colors the Vienna and Hamburg are excellent also.

Mics are an area where you get what you pay for. Often I've found that the cheaper the mic, the cheaper the build quality. They may sound fine, but might not be very durable or might not last.

I'd say stop spending at this point and save up for two or three high end pieces of gear for your setup. Drop a grand or so on a nice preamp and another $800-1000 on a mic. Then you'll stop worrying about always upgrading to the next best thing. You'll spend less in the long run and you'll stop looking for more gear. Note, of course, that recording space will always be the thing that MOST affects your sound. So if you're recording in a bathroom...expect it to sound like it was recorded in a bathroom. It's often better to spend money to use a nicer space like a hall somewhere or something like that.

My rambling $0.02 on the matter



I had my eye on the A6 for a while. I'm still gonna pick one up, but i found a great local deal on a Blue Reactor mic. I love it. it sounds awesome on acoustic guitar and vocals so far. I also picked up a GAP pre-73 and had it modded from the guys at ZenPro. I knew i wasn't gonna be able to afford a $1000 mic and a $1000 pre. I'm pretty happy with what i have for now. I always want more though It never ends. what an expensive addiction!



I really can't say enough about ADK's mics. Their higher end ones are great creations that have lots of different flavors/colors. But their basic line are some of the most flexible, and useful ones I've ever come across. Built well...and the company is great to deal with as well if you have questions or issues.
Computer: Lenovo y560, 2.0 GHz quad core, 8 gb RAM, Win 7 (x64)
Presonus "Stuff": Studio One Pro, Presonus Firestudio Mobile, Studiolive 16.0.2, Faderport
ricstudioc
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crow wrote:Thanks gizzmo i am going to kick this very very bad habbit and except that i need a 1000 mic and 1000 pre to get that pro sound so do u think with my setup i can achieve a radio ready cd?


I'm going to dissent with the comment above, and say absolutely you can do radio ready on a shoestring, in the sonic sense of the phrase. Takes a bit more work in the mix/master part of the process, and a LOT of referencing against the big-boy houses. I've had mixes from my humble little shop hit the major local stations on a number of occasions - and it's always a cheap thrill to hear your work in between, say, the Beatles and Green Day or whatever, and realize it holds its own. That's when you really know you're an engineer.

One thing about mixing to radio - in the final stages of mixing/mastering, you really need to slam the mix thru some heavy limiting, and tweak as needed to get it to sit right. I've been a radio engineer/producer, and I can tell you that any serious station ruthlessly brickwalls program material - just smashes the bejesus out of it. You don't PRINT that limiting, just test your mixes through it with the knowledge that it WILL see that kind of limiting at broadcast. If it sounds really good, and can survive such brutal limiting - you're pretty much "radio ready".

Now, as mentioned above - getting it on the air, well that's a different story.......

Ric

"The amazing thing about the dancing bear is not how gracefully it dances - it's that it dances at all."
Beauvais
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The only way to get a truly good sound on a budget is to do it yourself. Get a MXL V69 (transformerless), a Thiersch capsule (http://www.thiersch-mic.de/en/estm_service_cap_rl.html) and a NOS tube. Bam, great mic for under a grand..
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CPhoenix
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I had the AKG Perception 120, which sounds like it is the same just it's only a cardiod pattern, and the 420 is multi directional.

It's not a bad mic at all, but it had a tendency to be very sibilant. It really exagerated our "S" sounds when I recorded myself and even other people. I had to do a lot of dessing.

The room acoustics play a big factor... and I eventually was able to get usable takes... but, i'd probably look at a Rode NTa or SM57
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matthewgorman
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I have the 220, and would probably agree with the above. It will give you a workable sound. A little crispy in the upper range, but tamable. The 220 is virtually the same without the selectable pattern. 80hz filter and 20db pad, rear rejection pattern.
Matt

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crow
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Thanks Gizzmo ima post a lil short mix i did with my impact twinn audio interface and my mxl v250mic and let yall judge the sound as soon as i get home. Man i luv Presonus forms
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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matthewgorman
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A though came into my head a while back, and it made me stop fretting about my gear, and its a pretty simple one.

Without changing any of my gear, could (insert famous producer name) work on my system and get a product out on the radio? The answer is probably yes, so its most likely me that holds back any perceived lack of quality. I spend a lot of time on the web looking at how some of my favorite albums were recorded, and the gear is not all that different than what I am using. A great mic is not great on all sources, and may not be great on your voice. I have noticed better quality on some of my stuff that I have gotten by paying more attention placement, room, etc on the front end.

I think the control that we have in the digital era creates problems for folks like us with less experience. There is a though of "just put a mic in front of it and hit record". We have so many free and paid plugs that we feel we can correct anything. What makes a pro a pro, is the end to end managing of the process. In the big studio analog days, you couldn't put a 5 band parametric eq on every track, so you needed to adjust the sound coming in to the board. Too much bass? Move the mic back. Still too much? Adjust the amp. And on down the line.

I think your stuff is better that you think it is, but we are always our own worst critics. You aren't being fair to yourself comparing to a commercially produced song. Unless you feel that you have the same skill set as (insert famous producer name), then it isn't the gear holding you back. You will see more improvement in your product by refining technique than you ever will by spending more money on gear. And best of all, the education in technique can be had at little to no cost, with just some time spent with google.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
ricstudioc
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EXCELLENTLY put!! Thank you for that.

matthewgorman wrote:A though came into my head a while back, and it made me stop fretting about my gear, and its a pretty simple one.

Without changing any of my gear, could (insert famous producer name) work on my system and get a product out on the radio? The answer is probably yes, so its most likely me that holds back any perceived lack of quality. I spend a lot of time on the web looking at how some of my favorite albums were recorded, and the gear is not all that different than what I am using. A great mic is not great on all sources, and may not be great on your voice. I have noticed better quality on some of my stuff that I have gotten by paying more attention placement, room, etc on the front end.

I think the control that we have in the digital era creates problems for folks like us with less experience. There is a though of "just put a mic in front of it and hit record". We have so many free and paid plugs that we feel we can correct anything. What makes a pro a pro, is the end to end managing of the process. In the big studio analog days, you couldn't put a 5 band parametric eq on every track, so you needed to adjust the sound coming in to the board. Too much bass? Move the mic back. Still too much? Adjust the amp. And on down the line.

I think your stuff is better that you think it is, but we are always our own worst critics. You aren't being fair to yourself comparing to a commercially produced song. Unless you feel that you have the same skill set as (insert famous producer name), then it isn't the gear holding you back. You will see more improvement in your product by refining technique than you ever will by spending more money on gear. And best of all, the education in technique can be had at little to no cost, with just some time spent with google.
Ric

"The amazing thing about the dancing bear is not how gracefully it dances - it's that it dances at all."
Rangersam
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Although I am a little late into this thread, here is my 5cents.

For a long time I used the SM7 and a pre amp from Harbuch. Harbuch is an Australian company. The pre was only $45, and all I had to do
was put it in a box and add 24volts. That pre is a very basic transformer design, and for some time was the only transformer pre I owned.

As far as investing in mics and pres, I guess you have to decide whether you are going to build a collection of pro gear, or just chop and change through some budget prosumer stuff. No doubt you could most likely find 2nd hand SM7s around your price range, but at a new price of around $350 currently, it's a great option.

Once again I urge anyone on a budget to investigate DIY when it comes to pres. Also check out JLM Audio.

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crow
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matthewgorman wrote:A though came into my head a while back, and it made me stop fretting about my gear, and its a pretty simple one.

Without changing any of my gear, could (insert famous producer name) work on my system and get a product out on the radio? The answer is probably yes, so its most likely me that holds back any perceived lack of quality. I spend a lot of time on the web looking at how some of my favorite albums were recorded, and the gear is not all that different than what I am using. A great mic is not great on all sources, and may not be great on your voice. I have noticed better quality on some of my stuff that I have gotten by paying more attention placement, room, etc on the front end.

I think the control that we have in the digital era creates problems for folks like us with less experience. There is a though of "just put a mic in front of it and hit record". We have so many free and paid plugs that we feel we can correct anything. What makes a pro a pro, is the end to end managing of the process. In the big studio analog days, you couldn't put a 5 band parametric eq on every track, so you needed to adjust the sound coming in to the board. Too much bass? Move the mic back. Still too much? Adjust the amp. And on down the line.

I think your stuff is better that you think it is, but we are always our own worst critics. You aren't being fair to yourself comparing to a commercially produced song. Unless you feel that you have the same skill set as (insert famous producer name), then it isn't the gear holding you back. You will see more improvement in your product by refining technique than you ever will by spending more money on gear. And best of all, the education in technique can be had at little to no cost, with just some time spent with google.




Thanks man you nailed me in my brain!!!!!! you are completely right!! i have spent 2 much money and time on gear and wasted lotz of years of talent!!!! when i started at 18yrs old i just wanted 2 rap what my soul feels at 21 i started touring around church's in different state making Music was fun and i also realized the power behind words but than when i stared getting my music recorded in a studio and seen a bedroom studio for the first time and this is back in 2003 I FELL IN LOVE!!!!! i said to my self i can do that lol and wasted time and money on it now 30 ima give it its last shot and i wannna do it as big as i can but all that falls on ME! not gear SO THANK YOU!!!
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


tc electronics impact twin, at 4040, Mackie MR5mk2 Reference Monitor, Studio One V2
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