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Studio Ones Audio Engine not very good!
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zardak
Prenoob

Joined: 15/02/2012 11:01:09
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I have been mixing for many months inside Studio One, and to my ears the audio engine seems to have a midrange tape saturation sound blanketed all over the output. My monitors are dead-accurate clean as a whistle.

It doesn't seem to matter what sounds or third-party plugins i use, the end result is always some emphasized midrange tone across the mix and a dulling of the treble region with an ever so slightly murky bass end and an oh so obvious midtone to the midrange.

Now regardless of whether anyone says there is no difference in DAW audio-engines, because they say this discussion has be done-to-death, well i would argue that if it has been done to death, or they say "Oh, not this subject again, well i would have to say that obviously many producers out in music land must be hearing differences. Some of them do 'nulling' tests to prove what they are saying, others can simply hear it with their God given ears, and others do the listening with the same project imported into two or more DAWs with extensive familiarity with any particular project imported to those DAWs.

Well i myself am absolutely adamant that Studio Ones sound-engine, although clean with good dynamic range, seems to have an almost sickening (if you listen to it long enough) midrange tone that i just don't like, it lacks spacious open clarity for sure.
So what did i do about this, i went scouring the internet in search of answers because of my frustrations with S1's audio-engine, and my convictions were vindicated, so listen up Presonus Developers and get off your high horse with your professed statements about Studio Ones so-called state-of-the-art sound-engine, and take notice of what i am saying, because i reckon your S1 audio-engine needs to be modified; heres what i found on the net, just a couple of examples, but very compelling and persuasive.

1st quote: "Don´t now, but Logic and Studio One won´t null... Tried today, imported the same files into both DAWs and exported them to 24bit/44khz files. No processing, no panning and all faders at unity. Studio One was one dB softer, and get this, the waveform looked different! Seems like Studio One smears out some treble transients. Don´t know why, try it for yourself, Studio One has a fully functional 30 day demo."

So that would seem to prove my assertions that midrange is emphasized in some way inside S1's audio-engine, because he states that S1 seems to smear out some treble transients.

2nd quote: Soundtrade Studios in Stockholm. Live room.

The DAWs: ProTools 9, ProTools 10, Logic 9, Cubase (latest) and Digital Performer 7.24.
All installed on 5 equal Macbook Pros running optical O/P to a switcher to Genelec Monitors.

A 30 track project, all with equal panning and gain. (pan law etc were carefully compensated for).
The difference on the masterbus O/P between these DAWs (1 kHz test tone) was 0.2 dB from the highest to the lowest difference but that was also compensated for.

We tested 2 different projects. One tight rock song (the multitrack)
30 MONO tracks in a project with tracks panned and faders gained all the same on each and every DAW.

And one jazz type song. The jazz song was a stereo bounced mix file.

No plugins whatsoever.

This test took 2.5 hours and the material was tested on more than 30 members of the Swedisch Sound Engineer Society. All professionals.
We compared different looped material in sections, played on MBP nr 1,2,3,4 and 5 and even randomly.

The original projects were recorded 96/24 in PT and converted to 48/24 in PT and the files were imported to the DAWs.
The test also included a listening to 6dB masterbuss overdrive to see how that was processed internally in each DAW.

After every listening session we all got to say what we prefered and why.

The verdict:
The MBP nr 1 always was the most liked and than sometimes also in combination with nr 4 and nr 5.
MBP nr 3 sounded "compressed". Most bass.
MBP nr 2 nobody liked this one really. Only occasionally by a few persons. Sounded flat and pressed.
MBP nr 4 and 5 didn´t stand out, sounded equal and recieved some likes on a piano part and some dislikes in other parts of the music.

I was one of those that listened and didn't know what DAW was played on what MBP.
I heard the engineers say/yell "nr 1 is the best" all the time. I agreed.
It had the most depth, best definition, and fullest sound. It was really noticable.



Well. After 2.5 hour of listening, we finally got the results in.

MBP 1= Digital Performer
MBP 2= ProTools 9
MBP 3= Logic 9
MBP 4= ProTools 10
MBP 5= Cubase (latest version)

A lot of jawdropping amongst the engineers... "What?????!!!"
DP was by far the most liked in this DAW sound quality test!

The Swedish Sound Engineer Society claims this DAW test is to be taken seriously.
However the goal was to find out if there is any sonic difference between DAWs.
The answer to that was undoubtedly Yes! We all agreed on that.
Not an enourmous difference, but still significant for the trained ears that attended this test."



So please Presonus, we need you to compel the S1 developers to redo the audio engine inside S1, i'm not playing games here, you might be resting on conceited laurels, but you must know when to take action, and i am absolutely adamant that S1's audio engine needs to be modified.

And by the way, your multiband compressor inside S1 is garbage, Izotopes Ozone makes your multiband compressor sound like an amateur, side by side A/B/ing them, well your multiband sounds terrible. Also, we need to have the ability to set 'ONLY' the release to auto mode, without having to include the Attack time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/09/2013 21:07:37

dgkenney
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Sorry S1 isn't working out for you. Good luck with MBP of your choice and give my regards to the Swedish Sound Engineers. They throw one hell of as picnic and I always love their double blind herring test.

BTW, since S1 wasn't part of their test...what was your point exactly?


Dan

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 23/09/2013 21:32:59

All the cool kids hang out in the middle of their meters, you should too.

S1/2 Pro
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matthewgorman
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I'm curious as to the extent of the test. None of the things you mention are in the FREE version. No 3rd party vst's, no multiband compressor.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
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S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
JDENT
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Joined: 03/03/2013 20:55:32
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Interesting article if any one can be bothered to read it.

It's not what you've got but what you do with it that matters.
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHelp/html/app_audio.htm
skip jones
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Again I'm voting (Swedish) FISH.
http://support.presonus.com/home

Windows 7 X 32 (SP1) : AMD Phenom II X 4 945
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PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2, PreSonus FireStudio Project, PreSonus ABVSL 44, PreSonus ABVSL 1818, PreSonus Faderport

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zardak
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Isn't it good that i didn't fraudulently insert S1 into that test, and was honest to show the original?

My point was that there are differences in audio-engines, and i'm sick to death of the naysayers, the type that say "Black' when anyone else says "White" so to speak, gainsayers who love to contradict just for the hell of it or resort to sarcastic bullshit because they have nothing better to do or nothing of substance to add.

I own S1 professional , been using it for many projects.
dgkenney
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zardak wrote:Isn't it good that i didn't fraudulently insert S1 into that test, and was honest to show the original?


Yes, you should be very proud of yourself for not lying

My point was that there are differences in audio-engines, and i'm sick to death of the naysayers, the type that say "Black' when anyone else says "White" so to speak, gainsayers who love to contradict just for the hell of it or resort to sarcastic bullshit because they have nothing better to do or nothing of substance to add.

I think you have us confused with Gearslutz

Around here it's not an "either/or" proposition. I can't speak for others but as for myself, I resort to sarcastic BS because I have nothing better to do AND nothing of substance to add.


I own S1 professional , been using it for many projects.


Don't listen to it too long. I hear it will make you sick

Dan


All the cool kids hang out in the middle of their meters, you should too.

S1/2 Pro
***Lenovo i5 @ 3.1ghz running Windows 8.1 x64 with Syba Low Profile PCI-Express 1394b/1394a (2B1A) Card, TI Chipset, SD-PEX30009
*** Levono E520 with SYBA SD-EXPC34-2F 1394A Firewire 2-Port ExpressCard *** Win 7 64 Pro
*** Firestudio Mobile
*** Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2
*** Digidesign Eleven Rack, PT 10
Sold my PTHD system to someone who didn't mind paying $8000 for an upgrade to 11
dr4kan
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Just to be sure...

You got some 48/24 .wav files, you loaded them in different DAW and you played them, right? Then, you picked up as winner the DAW which sounded best, right? This is meaningless...

for example, do you think the best studio monitors are the ones which sound best? think twice before answering

EDIT: I try to make it more explicit: how can you be sure that the best sounding DAW is the one which add less color to the audio? you can't because your test is biased. Another example: usually tube amplifiers sound better than transistor amplifiers. However, every engineer knows that transistors are more transparent than tubes and the only reason why tubes sound better is that the add a lot of even harmonics which are pleasant. So, just to say that good sounding is not a synonym of transparency...and what professionals expect from an audio engine is transparency, to add the color, the tone, etc... is our job.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 24/09/2013 00:09:32

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skip jones
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Thank You for your testing. I, with respect to You, disagree, but it's all subjective.
http://support.presonus.com/home

Windows 7 X 32 (SP1) : AMD Phenom II X 4 945
ATI Radeon 5450 / 512 RAM
8GB RAM/1T SATA 7200 RPM

PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2, PreSonus FireStudio Project, PreSonus ABVSL 44, PreSonus ABVSL 1818, PreSonus Faderport

Yamaha S-08
Studio partner - Jack Russell named "Skooter"
PreSonus Studio One Professional 2.6.2
Fishman Triple Play / Logidy pedal
zardak
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How many times have i heard "It's all subjective". What a misnomer that is. In any scenario assuming all things are equal, then salt tastes salty, and sugar tastes sweet, and green looks exactly green, no ones gonna disagree, right? Subjective has nothing to do with it. DAWs sound different, the test has already proven it, and especially so when multiple people are agreeing .

If someones going fast in a car you will feel it, and most people will say "Slow down!", because 'subjectively' they ALL KNOW that they're goin fast. How many more examples would you like, or do you get the point? Anyone can easily hear when audio has too much bass or too much treble, no subjective about it.

In that aforementioned DAW test all things were EQUAL, and the listeners had trained ears, they were audio 'Professionals', or are only S1 users Professionals LOL.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 24/09/2013 00:46:13

matthewgorman
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How many times have i heard "It's all subjective".


Add one more....

Its all subjective.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
dgkenney
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matthewgorman wrote:

Its all subjective.


That's a fact, Jack!

Dan
All the cool kids hang out in the middle of their meters, you should too.

S1/2 Pro
***Lenovo i5 @ 3.1ghz running Windows 8.1 x64 with Syba Low Profile PCI-Express 1394b/1394a (2B1A) Card, TI Chipset, SD-PEX30009
*** Levono E520 with SYBA SD-EXPC34-2F 1394A Firewire 2-Port ExpressCard *** Win 7 64 Pro
*** Firestudio Mobile
*** Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2
*** Digidesign Eleven Rack, PT 10
Sold my PTHD system to someone who didn't mind paying $8000 for an upgrade to 11
skip jones
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Joined: 28/07/2010 15:38:49
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I thought I was polite.

How much politeness can you expect going to a DAW manufacturer's site and trashing the "sound engine"? Please respect the rules of posting here. No reason to be nasty.

I'll try, again... thank You for your opinion. Opinions are like parents, everyone has at least one.

@ Matt and Dan, Thank You, also!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 24/09/2013 01:36:20

http://support.presonus.com/home

Windows 7 X 32 (SP1) : AMD Phenom II X 4 945
ATI Radeon 5450 / 512 RAM
8GB RAM/1T SATA 7200 RPM

PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2, PreSonus FireStudio Project, PreSonus ABVSL 44, PreSonus ABVSL 1818, PreSonus Faderport

Yamaha S-08
Studio partner - Jack Russell named "Skooter"
PreSonus Studio One Professional 2.6.2
Fishman Triple Play / Logidy pedal
eike
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moved the thread, as part of it seems to be about stuff not available in free..

i don't agree with the discussion, neither with previous ones, stating the opposite.
the main differences that i see are preset curves and levels and resampling quality (if that is used).

zardak wrote:How many times have i heard "It's all subjective". What a misnomer that is. In any scenario assuming all things are equal, then salt tastes salty, and sugar tastes sweet, and green looks exactly green, no ones gonna disagree, right? Subjective has nothing to do with it.


actually that seems to be the base problem of these discussions. do not take it for granted. i recommend at least skimming over wittgenstein (dunno, perhaps reading the wikipedia entry may allready be enlightening; i have not read it though..)

i can tell that what you describe is typically the result of phase issues, which do no have their source within the audio engine..
eike
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zardak wrote:I own S1 professional , been using it for many projects.

really? i dare you to reply here!
 
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