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Presonus 328AI for studio monitor?
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Jack Barry
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I just got the Feb news letter and the 328AI speakers are quite impressive (on paper). I have been considering Studio mons and PA speakers for small live shows. Could these work for both? Here is the blurb;

http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-328AI
Thoughts?
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gadget69
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So your looking for something to do both? I haven't seen them yet but I don't know why not...
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mech2161
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My only thought would be with two eight inch woofers you would have too much low end. It would be nice to hear them in person.
Kevin
Jack Barry
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Too much bass from a relatively small cabinet might not be a bad thing. I think it is easier to cut low end than to try to get more out of a cabinet? Must touch and listen to the real box and they are not cheap, US$1500? each
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chrisatrational
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I have a hard time getting behind you on this one - the 328s would probably be inappropriately large fro near field, or even mid field monitoring. In the studio, you aren't monitoring at 105 dB A, 8' from your reference monitors. However, that level would be very common during a live show as 16' back you are at 99 dB A (-6dB per doubling of distance w/point source speakers); which would be quite comfortable for a rock band. a set of studio monitors would get pretty cranky at you for running them that hot.

Being that the 328s are high powered boxes, there is probably some sort of fan-cooling-action going on in the power amp module - I know the noise of that would drive me insane in a studio environment where you want to keep background noise to a minimum. Also, you'd have to keep re-wiring your studio every time you have a gig, which could be a PITA.

just some food fer thought.
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gadget69
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Good points...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
Jack Barry
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I guess we will have to see about fan noise and rewiring the studio would be? Plugging the signal and AC into the speakers? And as far as volume do I have to turn it up in studio? Good points though and of course I must say...I don't know my a** from a hole in the ground about studio mons

I am also wondering if the high/mid coax speaker can be rotated 90 degrees to achieve a pseudo line array with multiple cabinets a side?
I didn't notice any dispersion characteristics in the literature? But the HF horn looks to be something like 60-90 degrees by 30 or 40 degrees?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/02/2013 22:02:21

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chrisatrational
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The short answer is No, you cannot make a pseudo line array with multiple point source boxes on their sides. I mean, you can, however the HF vertical coverage pattern in a single line array speaker element is typically between 10-15 degrees.

It doesn't really work that way unfortunately. Line Array speakers have very narrow vertical coverage patterns, and as the array gets longer, the frequency where you lose directivity control lowers. Putting a point source box on it's side negates the benefits of it's horizontal coverage pattern, rotating the horn won't be enough to make up for that. You also introduce combing issues associated with 'arraying' multiple boxes in a way which they are not intended to be used. You would have much much better results by putting multiple speakers side by side up in the air to extend the horizontal coverage. Also, being in the air you can get more coverage out of the horn, and not just pummel the front with HF.

I guess it's really all about wavefront curvature. You can create a line array with dome tweeters as long as they are spaced properly. Spaced properly being the key qualifier here. You won't be able to get the tweeters close enough to act as a line source.

- cheers
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wesley
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While the quality of the audio reproduced by the 328AI's is definitely studio grade, these are waaaaaaay too loud for studio use (preliminary max SPL is 134dB @ 1M). Remember, you actually have Three 8" speakers in this model. 2 for the LF and an 8" coax for the MF and HF each driven by a 500W amp.

The Sceptre S6 and S8 have been scaled for near field studio monitoring use and are pretty astonishing sounding. So if you like the 328AI's for stage, the Sceptres would be the way to go for studio. You get the amazing imaging and coherence of the CoActual design, without the melt your face volume

Also, Chris is correct. None of the Full-range AI-Series loudspeakers are designed to be arrayed.
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Jack Barry
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Thanks guys, very informative. I thought it was worth a shot
I guess am still not understanding Gain structure? Max 134db is quite impressive but what if my output is low prior to the input of the power amps? Is this a signal to noise ratio studio deal? If these cabs are in a live PA and the gas is off at the FOH desk, what is the DB then? Not trying to be a smart a**, just trying to grasp studio stuff. Thanks again.
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chrisatrational
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as far as my understanding - max SPL of 134 @1M means that at 1 meter away from the speaker, you can turn it up to 134 db (A, C, Slow/Fast whatever the factory spec ends up being) anything after that it will have reached its performance limit/blowup/be unsafe/blow a circuit, etc.

guess am still not understanding Gain structure? Max 134db is quite impressive but what if my output is low prior to the input of the power amps? Is this a signal to noise ratio studio deal? If these cabs are in a live PA and the gas is off at the FOH desk, what is the DB then? Not trying to be a smart a**, just trying to grasp studio stuff. Thanks again.


the speakers are powered, so think of them as a system - the power amps and the speakers are mated. The max value is a performance based extreme value. In practice, you would almost certainly never run them that hot. Have you used a powered speaker before? Typically they have some sort of master output controls on the back, the AI series are not an exception to this. They give you some really cool stuff back there.

As far as signal to noise, the biggest concern for you in live situations is good electricity. Proper grounding will fix any noise that the system may have that isn't coming from the artist you are reinforcing.

If the gas is off on the mains at FOH, no sound gets out. "what is the DB then" - DB what? you mean SPL? SPL A? C? Slow? over how long? at this point you would be measuring ambient noise, so it all depends on your environment.

I apologize, I had a bit of a hard time understanding your post, so I hope I gave you the info you needed. Perhaps spend some time on the google researching some of these topics.

cheers - C

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 12/02/2013 22:34:36

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Jack Barry
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Thanks for the response. I am not concerned about SNR or ambient noise in live situations. If I set up the rig with my gear it will work correct. If I walk into a gig to twist knobs for a band or a show than the system provided is what it is.
I have designed built and used power distros so I am aware of the pitfalls of poor AC in the field. I have done 10,000 live gigs or so, 45 years worth. I am old school I guess. I have worked with a few line arrays both powered and passive and several powered point source systems. As well as amp rack active xover passive point source systems.
I am by no means an expert in line arrays and many technical things. And know very little about studio mons other than what I have gleaned over hours of web surfing.
What I am NOT getting is if the speakers (studio mons) are too loud why can't they just be turned down? If management tells me to turn down live I do so by downing the gas.
I apologize for not making this clear enough? Thanks again
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chrisatrational
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What I am NOT getting is if the speakers (studio mons) are too loud why can't they just be turned down?


How loud studio monitors can get is not really a concern, it's more about how appropriate are they for your room. To go back to the OP, there are better, more appropriate solutions to studio monitoring then a pair of 1500watt live sound reinforcement speakers. You wouldn't use a Danley JH-90 to do a bar gig that really just needed a little speaker-on-a-stick PA - I mean, you could, but it wouldn't be appropriate for the venue.

Bob Katz has proposed a really interesting solution for studio monitoring levels in his paper "An Integrated Approach to Metering, Monitoring, and Leveling Practices" called the K-System. I generally abide by the K-system and calibrate my monitors so that 0 dBFS = 79 dB SPLC w/pink noise at -20dBFS in the master out of the DAW.

Studio and Live are different animals, if you are engineering a mix in a studio - no one is going to tell you to turn down your monitoring levels - some engineers may even find that sort of interruption offensive. Monitoring anything over 86 dBSPLC starts to get pretty damn loud when you are only about 6' away from a reference monitor in a recording studio. That loudness effects the way we humans hear as well, to a point where we can't really hear accurately - think of our old friends, the Fletcher-Munson curves.

Cheers! - C
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Jack Barry
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Wow! Thanks again Chris, You are very knowledgeable and I do appreciate the input.
I am Jack the OP and the last post before this as well.
If I may paraphrase the warden from the movie 'Cool Hand Luke' "What we have here is failure to communicate"
What my original concept was is to find cabinets that could do small live shows (not rock) and also function as studio monitors. Because I plan on doing both. And wanted to see if there is such an animal.
Consensus has it as a big NO right? Other than rewiring stuff ( which is not a problem for me) The issue seems to be volume. What I am not getting is (In a studio) Why turning the level down won't work?
The 328AI's are supposed to have new razamataz processors correct?

On a totally different plain..... Is it possible to mix down a multi track project outdoors? Say I live in the country, I keep my gear in a garage, moving the gear out side only requires a table, laptop, accurate speakers, cabling, solid 1 circuit AC and no wind. Would that make acoustically good room?
Thanks again.
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chrisatrational
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No problem Jack! I'm glad I could point you in some interesting directions.

If you'd really like to use speakers that where never intended or optimized for use in a studio, go for it! If you want to purchase studio monitors that where never intended to be used as live sound reinforcement speakers, no one is going to stop you there either. You may get some weird looks from the punters, but that shouldn't stop you. Either way you go you will be making a compromise.

I think you will start to realize the pitfalls once you go down that road. I've tried to explain them to the best of my ability; but at the end of the day - it's your money and reputation on the line. If it works for you then that's great!

I'd be curios to hear what your outdoor studio sounds like when you do get around to doing a mix down. One of my ole' college room mates has a 'Solar Powered Studio' where he uses a bunch of car batteries and goes into the middle of the woods to track drums and things. Pretty cool, however the mixes are done in a proper studio.

here's a link -

http://vimeo.com/38223061

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