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Help with IEM questions
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klarkkentster
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Joined: 12/11/2012 18:36:00
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Couple questions on trying to figure out how to get Rolls Ra351b headphones to use as IEM stations (see attached)

Question 1 - Are the Aux outs balanced or unbalanced?

I am struggling what type of connector (TS/TRS/adapter etc.) I should use on these.
If i run a 1/4 TRS that y's into 2 XLR I get sound in both ears out of the headphone amp. If I run 1/4 trs to 1/4 TRS on the inserts I get nothing. If I run from one of the XLR outs on the snake to one of the XLR inserts... I get nothing.

I have a snake that has TRS AuX sends. I run four send through that and two other send through channel 1 and 2 of the snake. Do I need different connectors on the aux sends I run through the XLR's?

UGGGG - I am confused.

Here's what I want to do. Is some how go from the XLR on the snake into one of the 1/4 inserts (see attachment)

Is anyone else using these ROLLs units?
M_RA53b.pdf
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Hi,.
Sorry for the delay in answering your questions, NAMM is in full swing and were short handed here...

I'm sorry but I don't see anywhere that you have indicated which interface your using...

However, most of the sends on the devices are mono balanced/unbalanced, meaning they should work with either type, the caveat is that again it's mono... If you connect with a balanced TRS connection you will get a bit stronger signal as opposed to a single ended connection using unbalanced TS connections,

Perhaps if you give us ALL the info we can be of more help...
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klarkkentster
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I apologize for not updating this. I think I have figured this out. I will know for sure on Sunday. We are a portable church and can only test/try things out on Sunday
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No need to apologize..were usually here if you need help.
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
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knerr
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You seem to have this under control, but I have one of these amps so maybe I can help. I noticed you attached a different manual than the headphone amp you mentioned in the post, but going with the PM351, if you use a TRS cable, you'll need to switch the amp to mono mode, which you do with a jumper clip on the side of the unit.
Regarding using 1 & 2 on the snake for more channels, you'll need adapters.
So, assuming you're using the StudioLive, you'll need a TRS Male --> XLR Female by the board,
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1-5ft-Plated-Female-4-inch/dp/B001UJCJPY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359240612&sr=8-2&keywords=trs+female+xlr
[/url]
Then you'll need an XLR male --> XLR male (turn-around), if you're using an XLR in on your amp.
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXX144-Male-Gender-Changer/dp/B000068O4J/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359240809&sr=8-1&keywords=xlr+turnaround

If you have a 1/4 input on your amp, then the opposite of what's by the board will work.
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Premier-Series-4inch-Plated/dp/B001UJEKZ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359240931&sr=8-1&keywords=trs+xlr+male

If you have any specifics on your setup, I can be more specific as well. We'll be doing this soon at our church as well, and I've been trying to decide which way to go; either with individual amps, or a multi unit like the RA53b. They both seem to have their advantages. Any insight to your thought process would be great.
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Big Joe Daddy
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knerr wrote:You seem to have this under control, but I have one of these amps so maybe I can help. I noticed you attached a different manual than the headphone amp you mentioned in the post, but going with the PM351, if you use a TRS cable, you'll need to switch the amp to mono mode, which you do with a jumper clip on the side of the unit.
Regarding using 1 & 2 on the snake for more channels, you'll need adapters.
So, assuming you're using the StudioLive, you'll need a TRS Male --> XLR Female by the board,
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1-5ft-Plated-Female-4-inch/dp/B001UJCJPY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359240612&sr=8-2&keywords=trs+female+xlr
[/url]
Then you'll need an XLR male --> XLR male (turn-around), if you're using an XLR in on your amp.
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXX144-Male-Gender-Changer/dp/B000068O4J/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359240809&sr=8-1&keywords=xlr+turnaround

If you have a 1/4 input on your amp, then the opposite of what's by the board will work.
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Premier-Series-4inch-Plated/dp/B001UJEKZ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359240931&sr=8-1&keywords=trs+xlr+male
We have run a variety of these types of monitor setups including the Rolls amps.

If you have any specifics on your setup, I can be more specific as well. We'll be doing this soon at our church as well, and I've been trying to decide which way to go; either with individual amps, or a multi unit like the RA53b. They both seem to have their advantages. Any insight to your thought process would be great.

We use these Rolls PM351's on occasion and they work fine. I think you'll find they're much more convenient than the RA53b simply becuase it will put the level control at the fingertips of the musician. On our snake, I changed out the XLR ends for the Auxes and installed TRS ends rather than use adapters. It takes a little bit of soldering but it's not that big of a deal. On the other end of the snake, we use a TRS cable from the snake to the PM351 and have the jumper set to mono. On those occasions where we want a stereo monitor mix, we use an insert cable which is simply a TRS male plug that splits into two TS male plugs. This arrangement takes two linked aux channels to provide a stereo mix, and you have to move the jumper on the PM351 to stereo.
We don't really even use the mic line through feature with the separate mic level control on the PM351. We use them exclusively as level control for the headphone or in-ear mix and make all the adjustments on the StudioLive. Mono or stereo really depends on how many auxes you have available. Stereo sounds better to me but mono still works fine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/01/2013 08:50:18

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klarkkentster
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woops - i did put the wrong manual. I have a pm 351 for myself and really like it as well.


For the Ra's i wanted multiple mixes for one box. I am going to use a y cable - two xlr on one end to a TRS on the other to go into one of the "inserts" for one mix... and than another TRS from the box end of the snake to the mono input.
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klarkkentster
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OKay - Here's what I have. 16.4.2 SL and the Ra53b Headphone amplifier.

I have a club series snake with 16 XLR inputs on the box end of the snake and 4 TRS AUX sends.

I am running Aux 5 and 6 through channels 1 & 2 (which are xlr on the box end) on the snake. (we use two wireless mics so I didn't need the snake for these.)

I am trying to go from the XLR ends on the box to the 1/4 trs inserts on the Ra53b.

Today I tried a y cable that had two male xlr on one end to 1 TRS on the other. I had zero sound . Any thoughts?

Is it possible to do this? Is my problem trying to go from XLR to TRS ?

If I use the same cable and go from the 1/4 aux send on the box end of the snake and into the XLR inputs on the Ra53b it works fine....

I attached a couple attachments that will hopefully help.
I want to run one TRS from a TRS Aux send on the snake to here.docx
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gadget69
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Ok, lets quickly go over TRS balanced and TRS stereo...


TRS balanced is:
tip = + (plus) or pin 2 XLR\
ring= - (minus)or pin 3 XLR
sleeve= ground or shield

TRS Stereo is:
Tip = left channel
ring= right channel (your phones may differ L/R
sleeve = ground or common

These are 2 completely separate and totally different applications with totally different specifications...

The previous is strictly mono and can be typically used with mono 1/4" and stereo 1/4" plugs, the mono can sacrifice some gain if it's a double ended circuit...

The impedance and gain are totally different as well...

The snake is a low impedance circuit type that can easily handle low impedance signals over several hundred feet , and, within reason, higher impedance headphone level signals CAN but NOT over great distances...

A headphone signal CAN be sent over a snake using one 1/4" TRS or XLR connector using the above configuration... but your auxes are sending down the snake a MONO TRS/XLR signal...as a mic or direct box signal would...once the signal reaches the box, in order for true stereo, you will need 2 snake channels...be it TRS OR XLR... you can use a 'Y' cable to get signal to the 2 inputs of the headphone amp using ONE channel on the snake but both ends of the Y (single connector on one and double on the other) are wired exactly the same. all pins 1 tied together, all pins 2, and pins 3... the same. you need to verify that your cables are this configuration...

It is possible to send a stereo signal through the snake and into the headphone amp but you'd have to build a special cable.

The connection portion of your manual SPECIFICALLY states that if you want to have a MONO input signal be heard in BOTH ears, then you MUST use a 1/4" TS connector on the RIGHT/MONO channel 1/4" input ONLY...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 28/01/2013 02:30:36

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
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We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

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klarkkentster
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Thanks a bunch for your thorough response. Just a recap so I'm grasping this:


"A headphone signal CAN be sent over a snake using one 1/4" TRS or XLR connector using the above configuration... but your auxes are sending down the snake a MONO TRS/XLR signal...as a mic or direct box signal would...once the signal reaches the box, in order for true stereo, you will need 2 snake channels...be it TRS OR XLR... you can use a 'Y' cable to get signal to the 2 inputs of the headphone amp using ONE channel on the snake but both ends of the Y (single connector on one and double on the other) are wired exactly the same. all pins 1 tied together, all pins 2, and pins 3... the same. you need to verify that your cables are this configuration... "

*********** so i need to re i wire my current Y cable? ( I used both channels today. Y'd..into one trs and I had zero sound) So this cable must be wired incorrectly for my application? ********************



"It is possible to send a stereo signal through the snake and into the headphone amp but you'd have to build a special cable. "
***********A cable from the board to the input of the snake or from the box end of the snake to the headphone amp? *********


"The connection portion of your manual SPECIFICALLY states that if you want to have a MONO input signal be heard in BOTH ears, then you MUST use a 1/4" TS connector on the RIGHT/MONO channel 1/4" input ONLY..."

***********I am doing this currently and it works great. But - I am trying to have two different mixes per box. I used a trs today from one of the 1/4 outs on the snake end to the right/mono on the headphone amp and it worked great. **************

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klarkkentster wrote:Couple questions on trying to figure out how to get Rolls Ra351b headphones to use as IEM stations (see attached)

Question 1 - Are the Aux outs balanced or unbalanced?

Please note that the balanced outputs from the studiolive only carries a signal on one pin and not two.
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klarkkentster
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Maybe I need to resort to just buying another Ra53b instead of trying to get an addition mix on of our exisiting units
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***********I am doing this currently and it works great. But - I am trying to have two different mixes per box. I used a trs today from one of the 1/4 outs on the snake end to the right/mono on the headphone amp and it worked great. **************


2 MONO mixes? if so that IS possible but 2 Stereo mixes is not...that would mean you want to send (lets say) Aux 1 and aux 2 to the rolls unit? is this correct?
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
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BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

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klarkkentster
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I think to get it in both ears I would need to send one mono ( to the mono Right/Mono out) which duplicates the mono signal...


And then a stereo from aux 5 and 6 out of my xlr snake and somehow either rewire or find a cable that goes from XLR to 1/4 into the "inserts"... or rewire my Y cable that goes from both XLR's to one 1/4 into the inserts.

Below is a description from the owners manual.






INSERTS
The Channel 1, 2 and 3 inserts have been provided so you can directly access Channel
1, Channel 2 and Channel 3 headphone and earphone outputs with their own program
material.
The inserts require Tip-Ring-Sleeve connectors, with right and left signals on the tip and
ring respectively.
When these insert jacks are used, the main Right/Stereo and Left/Mono, as well as the
RCA and XLR Inputs - are disconnected to that channel. Only the stereo signals sent to
the Insert jacks go to the corresponding outputs.
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klarkkentster
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or is something like this the answer



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