image description


Column Line Arrays?
  Forum Index » Live Sound 
Author
Message
JayLira
Prenoob
[Avatar]

Joined: 26/03/2011 03:22:00
Messages: 9
Offline

Anyone here use or tried colum line arrays? pros and cons. I am currently looking at the new Carvin Trx 3903 line arrays to use for portable live sound set up.
scan0001.jpg
[Thumb - scan0001.jpg]
 Description Carvin TRX 3903 [Disk] Download
 Filesize 1453 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  591 time(s)

www.jlap.weebly.com
[WWW]
talmen
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:56:13
Messages: 3002
Offline

Columnar line arrays are absolutely wonderful - in the right setting. They have some marvelous properties, including, but not limited to: very long throw with a much more even amplitude over distance, somewhat more resistant to feedback (in most circumstances), crazy-wide horizontal dispersion, and very well controlled vertical dispersion. If you can, try before you buy and see if they work well for you.
Field Kit:
MacBook Pro 9.2 i5 2.5 GHz, 8GB RAM,
OS 10.8.5;
A & H Qu-16, AB1818VSL, Alesis IO14 / IO26,
PreSonus S1 v2.6.2.25990, Boom Recorder 8.3.2

Studio Kit:
iMac 11.3, i7 (Quad) 2.93GHz, 8 GB RAM,
OS 10.9.3,
M-Audio FW1814, PreSonus Faderport,
PreSonus S1 Pro 2.6.2.25590
talmen
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:56:13
Messages: 3002
Offline

BTW -- never seen that model before. Did a search and couldn't find them under that model number. Is it a yet to be released product?
Field Kit:
MacBook Pro 9.2 i5 2.5 GHz, 8GB RAM,
OS 10.8.5;
A & H Qu-16, AB1818VSL, Alesis IO14 / IO26,
PreSonus S1 v2.6.2.25990, Boom Recorder 8.3.2

Studio Kit:
iMac 11.3, i7 (Quad) 2.93GHz, 8 GB RAM,
OS 10.9.3,
M-Audio FW1814, PreSonus Faderport,
PreSonus S1 Pro 2.6.2.25590
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

Shure made the first line arrays back in the (ancient) old days... The newer units with steerable outputs provide solutions you couldn't get only a couple years ago... but they have limitations...a full on rock show is not likely within the scope of the speakers you are looking at...

Ya, the Renkus Heinz system, maybe the HK audio can do some of it but you better have zero to minimal stage volume with this type system...

The L1 system when pushed sounds nasally and harsh in my opinion, and should be used more for acoustic and other more 'natural' sound gigs...

My theory has always been to go in with more than I need and NOT have to use it than to go in with a small footprint that is BARELY able to do the job and have it fail...the equipment will last a LOT longer.. if that means anything to you....

But if you have money to burn, live on the edge!
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
talmen
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:56:13
Messages: 3002
Offline

Totally agree with you, Gadget. Your thoughts are exactly what I was think when I said "in the right setting," and perhaps a should have added "in the right kind of application." If you are looking for big power they aren't usually the ticket to get you where you want to go. I also don't like them outdoors, FWIW. It really depends on what you need from a system and the kind of venues you're going to be working in. A Gadget said, if you're doing a lower volume acoustic kind of thing it may be something to look into more seriously. Bose makes some stuff more serious than the L-series, too, and those are a bit more beefy, but still not that well suited to situations where any kind of heavy muscle is needed.
Field Kit:
MacBook Pro 9.2 i5 2.5 GHz, 8GB RAM,
OS 10.8.5;
A & H Qu-16, AB1818VSL, Alesis IO14 / IO26,
PreSonus S1 v2.6.2.25990, Boom Recorder 8.3.2

Studio Kit:
iMac 11.3, i7 (Quad) 2.93GHz, 8 GB RAM,
OS 10.9.3,
M-Audio FW1814, PreSonus Faderport,
PreSonus S1 Pro 2.6.2.25590
markstar
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/08/2011 09:49:44
Messages: 203
Offline

Have a look at the hk audio system nice but pricey
FOH-HKAudio 18" subs x 4
HKAudio 15" tops x 2
Lab Gruphen and crown power amps
HKAudio 1000w drumfill
Wharfdale pro twin 15 monitors x 4
Studio Live 16.4.2 mixer
tommyomiller
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 02/12/2011 02:53:14
Messages: 131
Offline

Actually.... We used to use "Atlas sound columns" way back in the early 60's. We hadn't heard of "line Array" back then... Heck we didn't know what monitors were either.

Take a look at a video of the Beatles at Shea Stadium. The put those all around the place.. They were like large spikes in the ground. AND they were really terrible. But nobody had anything like they have today...

ah Progress!! Sometimes it's good.. other times... maybe not so much..LOL
[Email] aim icon
lowdbrent
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 13/11/2010 22:17:51
Messages: 396
Offline

Those column arrays were also wired a bit differently. JBL white papers used to exist on this subject. They were around long before the Shure Vocalmaster and columns.
[Email]
tommyomiller
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 02/12/2011 02:53:14
Messages: 131
Offline

Yes they were Brent.....
[Email] aim icon
tommyomiller
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 02/12/2011 02:53:14
Messages: 131
Offline

one of my first pa systems was a Bogen 60 amp with 2 Electro-Voice Music Masters...(I think was the name) they were Steel horns.
Does anyone remember those?
[Email] aim icon
Big Joe Daddy
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 30/07/2010 01:24:03
Messages: 594
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, California
Offline

markstar wrote:Have a look at the hk audio system nice but pricey

I heard these last year at NAAM and they sounded great, but they used a lot of stacked subs and tops to get a full band set up.
StudioLive 24.4.2 | StudioLive 16.4.2 | StudioLive 16.0.2 | QSC K Series 10's, 12's, Subs | Fractal Axe-FX II | Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.4, 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 2TB RAID, 16GB | MacBook Pro | iPad 64GB | Studio One v2.5 | an old watch, a lamp, and a box of crayons
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

10 GRAND +++ for a stereo pair I think I'd be getting the Renkus Heinz for THAT kind of money...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
Big Joe Daddy
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 30/07/2010 01:24:03
Messages: 594
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, California
Offline

gadget69 wrote:10 GRAND +++ for a stereo pair I think I'd be getting the Renkus Heinz for THAT kind of money...

Yikes, I just shopped those Renkus-Heinz IC Live models. It'd be easy to drop $40K just on a pair of subs and a pair of tops.

Maybe if they go on sale...........
StudioLive 24.4.2 | StudioLive 16.4.2 | StudioLive 16.0.2 | QSC K Series 10's, 12's, Subs | Fractal Axe-FX II | Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.4, 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 2TB RAID, 16GB | MacBook Pro | iPad 64GB | Studio One v2.5 | an old watch, a lamp, and a box of crayons
talmen
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:56:13
Messages: 3002
Offline

Hi Joe!

Yea, those are very spendy. No for the average Joe, if you'll pardon the expression. Part of the reason those are so high-priced is that they have a lot of active electronics stuff going on in them. Those are not passive arrays, but thru fancy-schmancy digital controls are actually "steerable," and that is overkill for the average PA system or band.

The large catherdral church that I used to supervise sound for got a system overhaul a couple of years ago. We looked into all the available options. For the space and the programming needs we had, the Bose system was the most economical (not the L1 type stuff, but their more serious line of pro installation gear), and that was passive. We couldn't be happier with the performance we've gotten out of the system, and we saved a huge chunk of change by going passive rather than digitally controlled active steering.

http://www.emionline.com/designandinstallation/designandinstallationhome.html

The good folks at EMI did the design an install work for us. They blew the competition out of the water. If you go to the page above, there is a slideshow, and the fourth picture shows the two primary columns (mounted on the architectural columns at the front). The are so unobtrusive they are really hard to see in the picture. There are smaller satellites in the balconies. The coverage is amazing, and speech and music sound like a million bucks. It isn't a rock and roll system, but speech and acoustic music reinforcement sound spectacular.
Field Kit:
MacBook Pro 9.2 i5 2.5 GHz, 8GB RAM,
OS 10.8.5;
A & H Qu-16, AB1818VSL, Alesis IO14 / IO26,
PreSonus S1 v2.6.2.25990, Boom Recorder 8.3.2

Studio Kit:
iMac 11.3, i7 (Quad) 2.93GHz, 8 GB RAM,
OS 10.9.3,
M-Audio FW1814, PreSonus Faderport,
PreSonus S1 Pro 2.6.2.25590
Big Joe Daddy
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 30/07/2010 01:24:03
Messages: 594
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, California
Offline

Whoa! That's a heck of a setup Tim. It'll be interesting to see where speaker technology goes in the coming year. I'll bet it won't be long before some smaller line array stuff will hit a price point and a performance point where it'll be within reach for bar bands and weekend warriors.
StudioLive 24.4.2 | StudioLive 16.4.2 | StudioLive 16.0.2 | QSC K Series 10's, 12's, Subs | Fractal Axe-FX II | Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.4, 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 2TB RAID, 16GB | MacBook Pro | iPad 64GB | Studio One v2.5 | an old watch, a lamp, and a box of crayons
 
Forum Index » Live Sound
Go to: