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24.4.2 & HearBack system
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dcc23k
Prenoob

Joined: 18/12/2012 15:40:45
Messages: 10
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First, I'm a complete "pre-noob". So I've already seen people saying to use Qmix and get rid of HearBack but I am please requesting some advice since we already have HearBack. Does anyone have the perfect diagram to setting this up with their StudioLive? And what instruments do you usually put together on one aux? Again, complete noobie!! Thanks guys! Love the site!
mepstein
Presonic

Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
Messages: 267
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
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I'm by no means trying to bash QMix which I think is a great product, but it is not stable or featured enough to be used exclusively for my particular band. I have one early adopter playing with it from time to time, but that is as far as I can go.

Some of the issues I have, in no particular order:
  • The band has absolutely zero patience for even the slightest wireless latency or dropout; if they make a change and it doesn't work, they lose trust that it will work when they need it
  • the app is still a little clunky to use (my band has no use for the demo mixers, for example, and QMix should just connect if it sees a recognized mixer, not require a button press)
  • HearBack knobs by comparison work immediately, 100% of the time
  • iDevices go to sleep, sometimes lock; the musician does not have the luxury of stopping for a few measures to fiddle with the iDevice, whereas the HearBack knob can be operated almost without looking
  • I need to be able to limit what channels each musician can pull from, but I can't. Not only would that make the app less intimidating for the musician, I might not want them putting a specific channel into their mix, or turning down the talkback.
  • HearBack doesn't require the musicians to have, let alone remember to bring, an iDevice
  • HearBack does not require charging, a specific OS, connection to the internet to download, etc.
  • Most of these issues are not PreSonus-centric, just the nature of the beast. Again, I'm not complaining, but rather giving support to the idea that HearBack (or the like) is a viable (and in some ways, preferable) solution.

    I don't have a diagram, but there are really only a few choices. My method of choice is using the AUX outs (vs direct out from a channel, or insert). I have played around with having 1-2 fed by the mains (tape out, actually), or by a separate mix of the whole band (SUBn), but in my band no one cared so I think I no longer even use 1-2.

    Using the AUXes lets me dial it up how I want, and I just tell the band, "Bob is on knob 4, Sue is on 5," etc. I usually put multiple vocalists on one AUX, if possible splitting them up according to the part they sing. The instruments I generally give their own channel.

    I don't know if they still offer this as an option, but since the SL has a limiter it might be worthwhile: for a small fee, the manufacturer will modify the HearBack mixer to separate channels 1-2, using the limiter knob for channel 2 instead.


    jgoble2
    Prenoob

    Joined: 01/08/2011 00:38:45
    Messages: 13
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    Thanks for the reply! Because I'm sooo new, I'm just wondering how you might have yours set up. We have 2 lead singers ( one male & one femaie), backup singers, keys, bass, drums, acoustic and a lead guitar. We've coupled together the backup singers on one channel, the bass and drums on another, and the acoustic and lead on another; with everyone else having their own. One other thing......I'm the lead singer but I would rather hear more acoustic than lead guitar (remember they are on the same aux), but of course the lead wants to hear more of him. There is no way that I can hear that aux one way while they hear it another way is there? Thanks
    mepstein
    Presonic

    Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
    Messages: 267
    Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
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    I find that it's easier to mix vocalists than guitars, because people can generally pick out their own voice. Especially if they are male and female. I've never played guitar, but I imagine its a lot harder to discern your guitar from another, even if they are different types.

    I have, feeding my HearBack:
    mic(s)
    mic(s)
    mic(s) or piano
    guitar 1
    guitar 2
    bass & drums

    The mics are any combination of my various vocals depending on the band's preference that day, with the SL2442's aux mix capability, I can dial someone into or out of a HearBack channel in a matter of seconds.
    And our pianist is really loud so the band can hear him without any help.

    Wait, you are lead singer, why not put your vocal and the guitar you want to hear in one AUX channel, and control that mix either manually or if you have an iphone/pad/touch, with QMix locked in the "wheel of me" screen?

    Also don't forget that you can eke 8 mono channels out of your mixer. http://www.heartechnologies.com/press/press_HMB_Option8.htm
    dcc23k
    Prenoob

    Joined: 18/12/2012 15:40:45
    Messages: 10
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    Thank you for the reply and the help. I'll try some new configurations because our is just not working for us right now. Thanks again!!
    Big Joe Daddy
    Presonic
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    Joined: 30/07/2010 01:24:03
    Messages: 594
    Location: Santa Ynez Valley, California
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    jgoble2 wrote:Thanks for the reply! Because I'm sooo new, I'm just wondering how you might have yours set up. We have 2 lead singers ( one male & one femaie), backup singers, keys, bass, drums, acoustic and a lead guitar. We've coupled together the backup singers on one channel, the bass and drums on another, and the acoustic and lead on another; with everyone else having their own. One other thing......I'm the lead singer but I would rather hear more acoustic than lead guitar (remember they are on the same aux), but of course the lead wants to hear more of him. There is no way that I can hear that aux one way while they hear it another way is there? Thanks

    Hey Boys,
    I think we need to clarify a few things relative to the Hearback system and Qmix. They really are two entirely different animals.

    First let's talk about the Hearback system. The system is pretty darn clever and very simple to use for the musicians. The main unit is a standard 19" rack mount device with a proprietary fan-out cable with a multipin connection at one end that connects to the Hearback 'brain' and the other end is a collection of eight 1/4" TS male connectors. These male connectors typically connect to the aux sends on your mixer.

    Worth noting, channels 1&2 on the Hearback system are designed for a stereo house mix, leaving 3 - 8 as the remaining available channels to connect to your aux sends. So in essence, there are (6) available monitor mixes with the basic Hearback system.

    Now a cool feature about the Hearback system (depending on how you look at it) is that all the personal mixers connect to the main 'brain' in the rack via CAT5 cables. Inexpensive, handles audio over long distances, etc. Now as mentioned, the personal mixers are very simple to use. They offer an accessory bracket so the little personal mixers can be mounted on a mic stand and they utilize POE (Power over ethernet) so you don't have to hassle with any power supplies to the little mixers. Just a CAT5 cable and you're good to go. They also offer an adjustable limiter for hearing protection and a pair of 1/4" headphone jacks so two people can share the same mix. These headphone jacks can be connected to some in-ear buds, some powered floor wedges, or, obviously, some headphones.

    So what are some of the potential 'cons' or drawbacks? Well for one, it is a 'wired' system meaning you have to run cables to each mixer. You're limited to 6 aux mixes which isn't a big deal if you're running a StudioLive 16.0.2 or a 16.4.2 since they only offer 4 and 6 auxes respectively.

    Now let's talk about Qmix. As mentioned, it's an entirely different animal than the Hearback system. Essentially, the Qmix app on your iOS device is merely a remote control interface for the StudioLive mixer. It's limited to controlling the aux mixes on the StudioLive mixer and nothing more. Some folks get confused thinking that they can plug their ear buds or headphones into their iPhone or iPod and listen to their monitor mix with Qmix. It doesn't work that way. It merely serves as a remote control for your mixer. Permissions can also be set at the computer connected to the StudioLive that limit the control to only one aux mix. This will prevent the guitar player from jacking with the bass player's mix and visa versa.

    The important thing to remember is that for Qmix to function, you must have a computer connected to the StudioLive mixer with the Virtual StudioLive (VSL) software running. In addition, you must have a monitoring system connected to the StudioLive mixer, such as floor wedges, or headphone amps connected to the aux sends on the mixer, or a wireless in-ears system with a transmitter connected to the aux sends of the mixer and belt pack receivers feeding in-ears of the musicians.

    Now granted, the Qmix system may be considered more complex than the Hearback system, because you'll need a computer and either floor wedges, headphone amps, or wireless in-ears. But there are also some pretty cool features of running with the Qmix system.

    1. Each Qmix user can build a custom mix of all 16 or 24 channels depending on whether you're running a 16.0.2, 16.4.2, or 24.4.2.

    2. The system is wireless. No cables! No personal mixers on stage.

    3. Qmix is free. nuff said.

    Most folks tend to get their custom monitor mixes all set up and saved to a scene and don't have to mess with them much after that. And if they do, they can dial it in quickly, just the way they like it.

    Anyway, a few months back I put together a basic overview video of Universal Control, Qmix, StudioLive Remote, etc. Here's the link if you want to take a look. Fire away if you have any questions.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/12/2012 22:48:45

    StudioLive 24.4.2 | StudioLive 16.4.2 | StudioLive 16.0.2 | QSC K Series 10's, 12's, Subs | Fractal Axe-FX II | Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.4, 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 2TB RAID, 16GB | MacBook Pro | iPad 64GB | Studio One v2.5 | an old watch, a lamp, and a box of crayons
    mepstein
    Presonic

    Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
    Messages: 267
    Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
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    Big Joe Daddy wrote:
    I think we need to clarify a few things relative to the Hearback system and Qmix. They really are two entirely different animals.
    Please understand this thread was never about comparing the two. The only reason I did so in one of my replies was to give the OP some additional justification for hanging onto his HB system.

    Big Joe Daddy wrote:Worth noting, channels 1&2 on the Hearback system are designed for a stereo house mix, leaving 3 - 8 as the remaining available channels to connect to your aux sends. So in essence, there are (6) available monitor mixes with the basic Hearback system.
    Well, you can use those stereo channels for anything you like. No reason it has to be house mix. Also as I pointed out, the manufacturer offers a mod to split those apart, giving you 8 discrete channels into the personal mixer.
    Big Joe Daddy
    Presonic
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    Joined: 30/07/2010 01:24:03
    Messages: 594
    Location: Santa Ynez Valley, California
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    mepstein wrote:
    Big Joe Daddy wrote:
    I think we need to clarify a few things relative to the Hearback system and Qmix. They really are two entirely different animals.
    Please understand this thread was never about comparing the two. The only reason I did so in one of my replies was to give the OP some additional justification for hanging onto his HB system.

    Big Joe Daddy wrote:Worth noting, channels 1&2 on the Hearback system are designed for a stereo house mix, leaving 3 - 8 as the remaining available channels to connect to your aux sends. So in essence, there are (6) available monitor mixes with the basic Hearback system.
    Well, you can use those stereo channels for anything you like. No reason it has to be house mix. Also as I pointed out, the manufacturer offers a mod to split those apart, giving you 8 discrete channels into the personal mixer.


    I run both the Qmix and the Hearback system on a regular basis in two separate venues. Since the OP was comparing the two systems, I merely took liberty to explain some of the differences to help him understand the pros and cons of each.

    Yes, you are right. You can use the 1 & 2 stereo channels for inputting a signal other than the house mix, and some users may find that useful for some applications. Then again, the OP is running a 24.4.2, so I would assume he would be interested in understanding the option of having an additional two aux mixes sent to channels 1 & 2 on the HearBack. As I understand it, Hear Technologies will modify the system to utilize channels 1 & 2 for separate inputs for a price of around $60 bucks for each personal mixer. Some will consider that a bargain while others may consider it a deal breaker.

    All said and done, I think both the Qmix and the HearBack systems have their merits. The system of choice will just depend on the individual user and what makes their boat float.
    StudioLive 24.4.2 | StudioLive 16.4.2 | StudioLive 16.0.2 | QSC K Series 10's, 12's, Subs | Fractal Axe-FX II | Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.4, 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 2TB RAID, 16GB | MacBook Pro | iPad 64GB | Studio One v2.5 | an old watch, a lamp, and a box of crayons
     
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