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Mixing Console But.. (Studio One 3)
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lucknfree
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Joined: 15/02/2012 11:50:56
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The latest updated Cubase has a mixing console. Some people say it's useful and others say it's not.

For : You use EQ or Limiter or some other things on a track after all. Besides, if you don't use it then you don't have to use it.
Against : I don't need it so don't have it.

I agree with both of them. Each side has each reason that they think they are right, which makes sense to me.

However what if you don't like the quality of the mixing console?
I mean you think mixing console itself is useful but what if you don't like the sound of it?

So here is the solution.

If S1 would have a mixing console it would be great.
But if it has it, it should open to 3rd parties like VST.
It also should be detachable or customizable or you can hide it when you don't need it or for those who don't need it.

I think this is the best solution of Mixing Console with DAW.

The integration of melodyne is awesome. So integration of mixing console should be awesome as well.
Plus, if you don't use you can hide it. If you don't like the sound of it, you can choose other console because it opens to 3rd parties.

There is nothing but having it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 13/12/2012 09:09:10

sqwirral
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Joined: 06/04/2012 14:30:20
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Curious, what's the difference between this and the current mixer?
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lucknfree
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http://japan.steinberg.net/uploads/pics/C7MixConsole.png

You don't even need to insert plugins.
This is useful not only for lazy men who make music for their hobby but also professional users.

Actually, I've heard lots of professional users admit this new console that the latest cubase has is useful.
xylyx
Presonic
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It may be useful but I find it incredibly ugly. Having used Reason's [far more appealing looking] SSL style mixer, it is quite nice, although I do find it a huge waste of screen space when I maybe only want an EQ and/or compressor on a couple of tracks - presuming Cubase works similar to Reason's mixer (and it looks like it does), if you have an EQ on one track, then you have to have every channel expanded to the same height as the one with the EQ on...I prefer the current S1 way of being able to expand channels inserts and sends individually.
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lucknfree
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xylyx wrote:It may be useful but I find it incredibly ugly. Having used Reason's [far more appealing looking] SSL style mixer, it is quite nice, although I do find it a huge waste of screen space when I maybe only want an EQ and/or compressor on a couple of tracks - presuming Cubase works similar to Reason's mixer (and it looks like it does), if you have an EQ on one track, then you have to have every channel expanded to the same height as the one with the EQ on...I prefer the current S1 way of being able to expand channels inserts and sends individually.
Completely agreed with you.

That's why it should be
It also should be detachable or customizable or you can hide it when you don't need it or for those who don't need it.
xylyx
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Which pretty much covers how the mixer currently works...so, it seems like there is nothing being requested here that can't be covered by the current FX chains, mixer views and song templates. Unless I'm missing something?
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Lokeyfly
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xylyx wrote:
It may be useful but I find it incredibly ugly. Having used Reason's [far more appealing looking] SSL style mixer, it is quite nice, although I do find it a huge waste of screen space when I maybe only want an EQ and/or compressor on a couple of tracks - presuming Cubase works similar to Reason's mixer (and it looks like it does), if you have an EQ on one track, then you have to have every channel expanded to the same height as the one with the EQ on...I prefer the current S1 way of being able to expand channels inserts and sends individually.


Completely agree! I think we will see a lot of these posts because to many, there is just this plain ol' "cool factor" of seeing and being in front of the big console. I love Reason 6, but have to admit with its SSL like layout, I am stuck with all channels EQ, if I've selected one channel to EQ. All channels compression, if I need to open and use one channels compression. Yes, I can create one in the rack, but that's not the topic of mixer talk going on here. So anyhow the point is things becomes less visible on a large generic mixer! On the other hand, S1 is so purposeful that they have made the architecture of the console "You want it, you add it!". And therefore the need to see, monitor, or adjust specific modules (and even a few key parameters) are right there. THANK YOU PRESONUS!!!!!!!! (X a million).

lucknfree wrote:
If S1 would have a mixing console it would be great.
But if it has it, it should open to 3rd parties like VST.
It also should be detachable or customizable or you can hide it when you don't need it or for those who don't need it.

I think this is the best solution of Mixing Console with DAW.

The integration of melodyne is awesome. So integration of mixing console should be awesome as well.

The collaboration of Presonus with Celemony's Melodyne was brilliant. It is integrated perfectly in S1. That's one company.
As it is, we have the ability to add VST's in S1 right now and it works. Why complicate it?

I know everyone works differently, so I am trying to hear the reasons why we need a larger mixer. All I seem too hear is the other guy has it, so it needs to happen here. Unfortunately the other guy is running with a little too much baggage and crashing more (envision veering off and crashing into trees!).
I'll stay with the leaner, meaner way of doing things. It's working so far.
In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
awake1994
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DAW users are not paid for mouse kilometers and I don't want to think about how to change the value of a knob, going up, going left, mouse wheeling. I see a line and there's a shortcut in my brain how to use it.

Bring back so called "consoles" is a management fetish, they make music with eyes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/01/2013 18:06:16

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lucknfree
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xylyx wrote:Which pretty much covers how the mixer currently works...so, it seems like there is nothing being requested here that can't be covered by the current FX chains, mixer views and song templates. Unless I'm missing something?
I'm not talking about whether you can do something or not. I think one of reasons why S1 has become popular is the workflow. In other words, it is very handy. (But I think you are right. Maybe this is for those who really like mixconsole. As a personal opinion, I don't think it's super handy but I've heard some professional users praised the mixconsole that cubase has so I thought, if they can, it would be great if S1 would have it. Maybe when you start to make a song without using template it would be useful and you don't always use template.)

The collaboration of Presonus with Celemony's Melodyne was brilliant. It is integrated perfectly in S1. That's one company.
As it is, we have the ability to add VST's in S1 right now and it works. Why complicate it?

I know everyone works differently, so I am trying to hear the reasons why we need a larger mixer. All I seem too hear is the other guy has it, so it needs to happen here. Unfortunately the other guy is running with a little too much baggage and crashing more (envision veering off and crashing into trees!).
I'll stay with the leaner, meaner way of doing things. It's working so far.
For guys like you who think you don't need a larger mixer, I suggest it should be customizable or you can hide some parts. And of course if it's compatible or can use VSTs, it's the best solution in my opinion. I just thought from the technological point of view it might be hard to do that. Yeah, compatible with VSTs is the best.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 08/01/2013 10:30:49

Lokeyfly
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Hi lucknfree,
Yeah, its a personal preference how to work. No right/wrong way. You even make that clear in the original post.
Standard big board and even customizable as mentioned, or very minimal approach. It's all a matter of preference.
One can see that the design of S1 is largely based on an all in one screen user interface, and also having the option to remove sections (mixer & editor) to the main screen be it another monitor or just simply detached window.

Did you notice in the link you sent of the Cubase 7 mixer that all EQ sections of all tracks are minimized? I'll bet that's dropping the knob load. Still you cant see all EQ of tracks at a glance. http://japan.steinberg.net/uploads/pics/C7MixConsole.png

I do not know if the feature exists to view EQ curve graphically, as I've only seen Cubase 7 display knobs in their previews. I know Nuendo can display both analog and graphic EQ, and I guess Cubase would probably also? I much prefer a graphic curve display over knobs. Well, S1 shows a graphic view of EQ curves already. Just a bunch of knobs on the EQ section is not instant visual information of EQ at all. Look, I know it's all about listening that is imortant, but if I need to roll off the low end a little, a graphic display may just help a bit.

I guess the view of some indicators such as compressor threshholds, tube drive levels and so forth are a slight plus, but at a cost of screen space? nah! Now if Presonus were to allow options to add such meter activity, sure it could be helpful. I could dig that.

In conclusion of the latest Cubase mixer, I don't see it as being very clear as to what is going on with all tracks. Not at all. No real color to distiguish instrument tracks from Midi, Auxilary tracks, effect busses, nothing. All the while taking up a lot of real estate. I'm not impressed.

Quick question from your original OP
However what if you don't like the quality of the mixing console?
I mean you think mixing console itself is useful but what if you don't like the sound of it?

Do you have an issue with the sound quality of Studio One? I believe most DAW's maintain a good level of audio quality so I was a bit curious why you pointed to sound quality. Were you interested in some sort of contribution to sound quality from VST support. You know like a British punch or certain audio characteristics that leave a mark or signature in some way? There are VST's such as from Waves that do this.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 10/01/2013 08:05:45

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
lucknfree
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Lokeyfly wrote:Did you notice in the link you sent of the Cubase 7 mixer that all EQ sections of all tracks are minimized? I'll bet that's dropping the knob load. Still you cant see all EQ of tracks at a glance. http://japan.steinberg.net/uploads/pics/C7MixConsole.png

I do not know if the feature exists to view EQ curve graphically, as I've only seen Cubase 7 display knobs in their previews. I know Nuendo can display both analog and graphic EQ, and I guess Cubase would probably also? I much prefer a graphic curve display over knobs. Well, S1 shows a graphic view of EQ curves already. Just a bunch of knobs on the EQ section is not instant visual information of EQ at all. Look, I know it's all about listening that is imortant, but if I need to roll off the low end a little, a graphic display may just help a bit.
I don't know how the graphic of EQ on Nuendo works but I think it's the same. Anyway, I do notice that you can not view the EQ sections.

In conclusion of the latest Cubase mixer, I don't see it as being very clear as to what is going on with all tracks. Not at all. No real color to distiguish instrument tracks from Midi, Auxilary tracks, effect busses, nothing. All the while taking up a lot of real estate. I'm not impressed.
That's the very reason why I want S1 has a mixing console on it. The design of Cubase just sucks.

Do you have an issue with the sound quality of Studio One? I believe most DAW's maintain a good level of audio quality so I was a bit curious why you pointed to sound quality. Were you interested in some sort of contribution to sound quality from VST support. You know like a British punch or certain audio characteristics that leave a mark or signature in some way? There are VST's such as from Waves that do this.
Not at all. My point is to have more options is always a better solution than having less options. Each person has each taste. Not all the people who make music make the same music genre as well.


Lokeyfly
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lucknfree wrote:
more options is always a better solution than having less options. Each person has each taste. Not all the people who make music make the same music genre as well.

Yes, options can be good as long as long as there not overwhelming. I agree, people do make different music from different genres. I’ve always maintained that position.

There’s also a lot of dub step heads that wouldn’t know a quality DAW from a popcorn machine.

We can agree S1 will develop smart and useful features as it continues to bloom. .
Have fun making music!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/01/2013 08:30:26

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
lucknfree
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Lokeyfly wrote:Yes, options can be good as long as long as there not overwhelming.
Indeed. I totally agree with you. And that's *a* reason why S1 is better than Cubase. You can do many things on Cubase but their functions are just added later on, which means the workflow is really bad.

I don't think to open mixing console to 3rd parties is not overwhelming.
You got my point. Thanks.
limao
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Joined: 02/03/2012 22:56:22
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the Console is that what i like totally in studio one.. in narrow-mode on an extrascreen it is a fantastic meterbridge...i really like it... it loads with my template, so i have kind of "myconsole"..which i do not change very often... if i use the onboard plugins i can see their display in the strip...

the only thing which might be cool.. if u you could put some knobs there..(like for plugs who have no GUI) and connect them with the specific plug-in parameter "behind" the console... at the end it would be a channel-strip with just less controls... don't know if i would use that

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 22/01/2013 16:15:30

Phil_The_Rodent
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This looks pretty much just like an alternative to the current horizontal sliders, in Large/Normal view with the plugins (eg. Channel Strip) expanded. I've actually liked the look of the older consoles as well, where knob placement might be a titch more intuitive than reading down a list of parameters. Perhaps the correct implementation might be an option for how the plugin appears when expanded in the inserts, or two separate expansion options (expand to list view/expand to console view).
 
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