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Anyone using REW (Room EQ Wizard) with a StudioLive mixer successfully?
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greg.thomas.brown
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Hi folks,

Tried searching the forum for info on this but couldn't find anything. That being said I'd terrible at searching for stuff.....

I'm trying to use REW with a StudioLive 16.4.2 and MacBook Pro 13" (circa 2009) but can't seem to get the things routed properly. I suspect some of you have figured it out how to do it, but it's a mystery to me..... Mono mentioned using it in a post, so hopefully he's reading this!

The reason for wanting to use REW (instead of, or in addition to, the Presonus setup wizard) include being able to use a calibration file for the mic, getting waterfall curves, etc....

Any help would be appreciated, regarding the Mac settings and REW settings to get it to work. I'm starting to wonder if just using a breakout cable directly to the 1/8" jack on my Macbook to use it's soundcard directly, with a mixer for pre-amp (I have a little Mackie I could use) rather than using the StudioLive is the solution? But I'd rather use the StudioLive so I can possibly use REW at gigs without hauling out extra gear.

Thanks!
Monolithent
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I am always reading.

I was never able to get it quite right so I just gave up and routed through an older firewire interface off of the solo bus of the studiolive.

That and I was on a windows system. Might give it another crack though. now that I have a mac system I can use.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
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Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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greg.thomas.brown
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Thanks Mono, keep me posted if you have success! I'll keep trying on my end, but I'm pretty-much out of ideas....
Monolithent
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One thing to think about and what kept beating me is that REW is designed initially to use as an ASIO or WDM software so it is thinking in terms of stereo pairs all the time.

What kept kicking my but was that I could not get Universal Control to let me have a channel that would work with REW. It is looking for the default mic input if I recall correctly. If you can get the default to something you can connect to and then get REW to see the way Smaart does you might have a hope.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
greg.thomas.brown
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Yes, this is where I'm hung up too.

I can get the test signal through my studio speakers, using the 16.4.2 as the interface. But I can't get the microphone routed back to REW. I've tried setting "Presonus Firestudio" as the default under Mac preferences, then telling REW to use the default. I've also tried telling REW to use "Presonus Firestudio" directly.

I found a user on the REW forum who had trouble with an MBox and a Mac, and I think there was some problem with Java setting up the routing (I don't know much about this stuff....does Java actually route signals in a Mac?) since it wasn't a 4-channel interface.....
Monolithent
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I couldn't tell you to be honest. I pulled my old M-Audio Firewire410 out of the closet and routed through it and the SOLO bus on the studiolive. It worked just fine.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
chrisatrational
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Hello! Can you clarify what REW is? is this something outside of the Smaart wizards? I don't know of any room eq wizard (but I'm relatively knew to the PreSonus community, so forgive me if I'm missing something), however there is a system response analysis wizard. What is the PreSonus set-up wizard?

Also, if you are running a full version of Smaart (or possibly another FFT program) there is the ability to enter mic calibration files, however this is considered a power user thing and is not necessary for the measurements that we are all doing (i'd love to talk more on this if you want to PM me). If you are viewing the Smaart implemented tools from UC1.6 and 1.7, there isn't nearly enough resolution to benefit from calibration files - basically what I'm saying is that if you are trying to do measurements to the level of detail you may be trying to achieve, you would require a full version stand alone FFT analyzer.

Also Also, I'm wondering where you are having trouble with the routing? The wizard prompts you to put the measurement mic into the talkback input and then you analyze whatever output you wish to that is connected. If you are using a stand alone program, Mac's see the studio live as an input and output device, all you need to do is select which channels you want to use - you don't even need to engage the FireWire button on the console.

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greg.thomas.brown
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Hi,

REW (Room EQ Wizard) is a piece of non-Presonus, free software used a lot by audiophiles to set up their home systems, but seems to be good enough to be used by pro's too. Maybe it could be thought of as being somewhere between actual S.M.A.R.T. and the verion we have bundled with VSL. It can do phase analysis, for example, and waterfall graphs to give an indication of impulse response. The waterfall graphs are what I'm most interested in, to get an idea if room treatment is helping with bass response, or at least to understand what the anomalies are.

I may just do what Mono did and get a 4 channel (2 in/2 out) USB interface that plays nicely with the routing....a shame since I have this nice StudioLive interface already...
chrisatrational
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Just FYI the product is called "SMAART", and stands for System Measurement Acoustical Analysis Real Time.

Ah, I hadn't heard of REW until today. Sounds like you are just having driver issues - which is the downfall of freeware, they generally can't keep up with the support necessary to work all the time; what with frequent OS changes, driver changes, computer modifications etc. It's definitely not a PreSonus issue. Also, the built in input is a very VERY very sure way to unstable or inaccurate measurements, so tread lightly my friend. Grounding issues, computer noise, and crosstalk are very serious concerns when you take an I-O out of the equation.

Waterfall plots may be an interesting way to view impulse response, however the best way to view impulse response is by actually viewing an impulse response measurement . Perhaps you are reaching the point where investing a little bit to have less hassles and acquire more stable results is worth considering.

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greg.thomas.brown
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Sorry missed an 'A' when typing.....

I figured the on-board sound card on a Mac would suck for this purpose, so I'm thinking I'll get a 4-channel interface, USB or FireWire, at least for the input stage. Looks like the StudioLive works well for driving my speakers with REW, somehow it manages to route the test signal to it.

Mono, when you route through your M-Audio interface do you disconnect your StudioLive from the FireWire bus, or use it for the firewire return from the computer, using it to drive your speakers?
chrisatrational
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No Worries! Now you can impress all your friends by knowing the full name

You may want to be sure that the 4 channel interface you purchase works with REW before you get it, or you'll be in the same situation you are now with your 16.4.2. Also, does REW allow for more multiple measurement inputs? if not, you can get away just fine with a standard 2 channel I-O.

Furthermore, I doubt that REW allows for multi-device measurements (different device for input and output) - so you may want to check that as well. The best option would probably be to have a stand alone rig using the same interface for in and out - that way clock drift, sample rate, and other digital audio dilemma's stay to a minimum.

interesting that you can get signal out to the SL console, but not in! Perhaps if you bug REW enough, they'll generate a .rev build to work with SL's.
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Monolithent
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I'm using a rackmount with multiple firewire ports. I plug the SL into one and the M-Auidio into the other.

If you have only one port and it is a powered 6 or 9 pin and your device of choice doesn't require external power from a wall wart. Connect the firewire cable to it first and then from it to the studioLive. Taht way it can get power. The ports on the SL don't trasfer the juice.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
greg.thomas.brown
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Hey Mono, and anyone else listening or interested....

I couldn't get REW to work with my StudioLive, but did find another piece of free software (well, limited functionality until buying it) to give me a waterfall plot.

It's called FuzzMeasure (I know, strange choice of names). It was a cinch to set up with my StudioLive, free for the demo version, and worth checking out. I don't think it can use a calibration file unless you buy it, but it can do sine wave sweeps which is great!
chrisatrational
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Hey Greg!

I'm just looking back on this chain - you mentioned that your work is with bass response.

"The waterfall graphs are what I'm most interested in, to get an idea if room treatment is helping with bass response, or at least to understand what the anomalies are. "

So, I'm wondering why you keep mentioning calibration files.

" include being able to use a calibration file for the mic"

I think you have a misconception about microphone calibration files. Think of them more as microphone 'correction' files rather then calibration (in Smaart, we refer to calibration files as correction files to help aid in this understanding). The purpose of them is to correct for build up in the tip of the microphone from frequencies reflecting off and around the microphone capsule - only the shortest wave forms will exhibit this behavior - starting generally around 8.5kHz. anything lower is not going to be effected. I've attached a picture which shows this.

Do you do work with SPL? A calibration file would be handy for that as you have sensitivity data - otherwise calibration files aren't considered to be a gig make er' break-er.

Another poke for using impulse response measurements - you wouldn't use a hammer when you need a screw driver....
Screen Shot 2012-12-03 at 1.14.33 PM.png
[Thumb - Screen Shot 2012-12-03 at 1.14.33 PM.png]
 Description Mic Calibration File On/Off Compare. 1/48th Octave Spectrum [Disk] Download
 Filesize 98 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  266 time(s)

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greg.thomas.brown
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So if my goal is to do mixes at home (all-be-it demo mixes) with near-field studio monitors, are you telling me the calibration/correction file is of no use when I do a sine-wave sweep from the listening position? That's one of my goals, the other is to get a better handle on rooms when doing live sound.
 
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