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S1 vs Sonar X1 just a quick experience.
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GjS
Prenoob

Joined: 27/12/2010 07:24:23
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ba-midi wrote:

Thanks for the welcome

I don't mind Vodka Cran



One Vodka Cranny ...coming up

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mavafa
Prenoob

Joined: 25/01/2011 05:11:07
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I already find rewire as easy to setup as Sonar but I have always used the stereo out from Reason.

The instrument pane shows all of the 64 outs from Reason so I guess I will have to try it with a new project.

Cheers
Macbook Pro 2.7ghz 16gig Ram OSX 10.9 Apoggee Duet 2 Studio One Pro, Reason 7, Recycle.
bitflipper
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I'll be starting my first project this week. I leave on vacation tomorrow morning, so for starters I've got 14 hours of flying time to fill. My laptop's good for only 3 hours, but I can recharge it during my layover in Tokyo. That's a total of 6 hours with no distractions, not counting departure lounge time. No internet help, just the pdf and S1's reputation for being logically laid out. We'll see what happens.
ba-midi
Presonic
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bitflipper wrote:I'll be starting my first project this week. I leave on vacation tomorrow morning, so for starters I've got 14 hours of flying time to fill. My laptop's good for only 3 hours, but I can recharge it during my layover in Tokyo. That's a total of 6 hours with no distractions, not counting departure lounge time. No internet help, just the pdf and S1's reputation for being logically laid out. We'll see what happens.


Well, again I wish you aj great vacation Dave (and a safe one).

I'll definitely be curious to hear your feedback / experience with Studio One.

As I've said, I haven't touched anything but S1 for the last week and it's been real good so far - smooth as silk.

So keep me/us posted when ya can, Dave - and again, have a great time!
You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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Jim Roseberry
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Joined: 05/02/2011 20:06:34
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ba-midi wrote:
While I would never get into a big debate about it, it just seems that I have to do a lot LESS processing (EQ in particular) to get a good sound out of S1.

Now it maybe just be due to their excellent Pro EQ (comes with S1 pro) -- which I find similar in sound to Fab Filter's Pro-Q (that you already know I like as do you).

But the overall 'result' of anything I've been trying in Studio One is just cleaner, less muddy.

I don't have scientific proof, yet -- but I'm sure I'm not imagining this.

I'm curious if you've had any feelings about this area yet?




FWIW, I got the NAMM special for S1 Artist... and kept seeing the positive comments from you and Scott. So I decided I needed to give S1 a much closer look.

When I first saw tthe above comment... I was pretty skeptical.
Having now purchased S1 Pro... and loaded the same Kontakt-4 test project (Jet-City drum library)... I can immediately hear a difference between S1 and Sonar. More punch/presence/clarity when playing back in S1 (particularly obvious on Kick and Snare)
As you know, I'm a strong proponent of Sonar... so I don't make this statement lightly.
In this case, it's the exact same MIDI file, triggering the exact same drum/cymbal samples, using the exact same mix.
Not what I expected...

I see a whole lot to like about S1 Pro.
I do miss some more esoteric MIDI editing features (ie: Instrument Definitions, Explode MIDI files to tracks by channel, other scenarios where you might use CAL scripts or the Logical Editor in Cubase, etc) but the basics are there.
One audio feature I miss significantly (from Samplitude, Reaper, and Sonar) is per-item (per clip or segment of audio) based EFX.
This opens up a world of processing possibilities... (snap-shot type automation, easy/accurate/surgical de-essing, etc) and the EFX only load the CPU while the item/clip is playing.

One other simple audio feature I miss is numeric peak-hold meters on tracks, buses, and outputs (highest peak held indefinitely).
You've got a nice plugin meter... but peaks aren't held for long.
Sonar is a good example for this feature. There's some dead space in the S1 GUI where numeric peak-hold meters would fit perfectly.

An unexpected/pleasant surprise was S1's included EFX/processing.
For giggles, I inserted the Tuner and Ampire... and set off do some DI electric bass recording.
The included tuner is actually very useable! As odd as that may sound, many software tuners are so unstable (especially with lower pitch instruments like bass) they're virtually useless. The included tuner worked just fine...
Now on to Ampire. Dialed up the Rocky Bass preset and tweaked it a bit...
Hey... that sounds pretty decent! I'm a sucker for old-school classic (Rock) bass tones... where there's just a little bit of dirt (without the fuzzy bottom end).

It took me a little while to figure out how S1 Pro deals with multi-channel outputs from Kontakt (slightly different than Sonar, Cubase, or Reaper)... but there's just as much routing flexibility as Cubase.
Sonar and Reaper allow completely free routing of any of Kontakt's output channels (doesn't matter that they're multi-channel in Kontakt). Hopefully S1 will gain flexibility is this area... but it's flexible enough to get the job done "as is"

BTW, I should also mention that running my Kontakt 4/Jet-City performance test, S1 out-performed Sonar X1, Cubase 5.5, and Reaper(lower CPU reported in TaskManager)

As a Sonar user who goes back to the Compuserve forum days, I'm not ready to uninstall Sonar (or any of my other DAW apps), but S1 Pro has my interest and I'll definitely make use of it.
Kudos on a fine start!


Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 05/02/2011 20:59:17

Best Regards,
Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com
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ba-midi
Presonic
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Joined: 13/01/2011 19:35:36
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Jim Roseberry wrote:
ba-midi wrote:
While I would never get into a big debate about it, it just seems that I have to do a lot LESS processing (EQ in particular) to get a good sound out of S1.

Now it maybe just be due to their excellent Pro EQ (comes with S1 pro) -- which I find similar in sound to Fab Filter's Pro-Q (that you already know I like as do you).

But the overall 'result' of anything I've been trying in Studio One is just cleaner, less muddy.

I don't have scientific proof, yet -- but I'm sure I'm not imagining this.

I'm curious if you've had any feelings about this area yet?




FWIW, I got the NAMM special for S1 Artist... and kept seeing the positive comments from you and Scott. So I decided I needed to give S1 a much closer look.

When I first saw tthe above comment... I was pretty skeptical.
Having now purchased S1 Pro... and loaded the same Kontakt-4 test project (Jet-City drum library)... I can immediately hear a difference between S1 and Sonar. More punch/presence/clarity when playing back in S1 (particularly obvious on Kick and Snare)
As you know, I'm a strong proponent of Sonar... so I don't make this statement lightly.
In this case, it's the exact same MIDI file, triggering the exact same drum/cymbal samples, using the exact same mix.
Not what I expected...

I see a whole lot to like about S1 Pro.
I do miss some more esoteric MIDI editing features (ie: Instrument Definitions, Explode MIDI files to tracks by channel, other scenarios where you might use CAL scripts or the Logical Editor in Cubase, etc) but the basics are there.
One audio feature I miss significantly (from Samplitude, Reaper, and Sonar) is per-item (per clip or segment of audio) based EFX.
This opens up a world of processing possibilities... (snap-shot type automation, easy/accurate/surgical de-essing, etc) and the EFX only load the CPU while the item/clip is playing.

One other simple audio feature I miss is numeric peak-hold meters on tracks, buses, and outputs (highest peak held indefinitely).
You've got a nice plugin meter... but peaks aren't held for long.
Sonar is a good example for this feature. There's some dead space in the S1 GUI where numeric peak-hold meters would fit perfectly.

An unexpected/pleasant surprise was S1's included EFX/processing.
For giggles, I inserted the Tuner and Ampire... and set off do some DI electric bass recording.
The included tuner is actually very useable! As odd as that may sound, many software tuners are so unstable (especially with lower pitch instruments like bass) they're virtually useless. The included tuner worked just fine...
Now on to Ampire. Dialed up the Rocky Bass preset and tweaked it a bit...
Hey... that sounds pretty decent! I'm a sucker for old-school classic (Rock) bass tones... where there's just a little bit of dirt (without the fuzzy bottom end).

It took me a little while to figure out how S1 Pro deals with multi-channel outputs from Kontakt (slightly different than Sonar, Cubase, or Reaper)... but there's just as much routing flexibility as Cubase.
Sonar and Reaper allow completely free routing of any of Kontakt's output channels (doesn't matter that they're multi-channel in Kontakt). Hopefully S1 will gain flexibility is this area... but it's flexible enough to get the job done "as is"

BTW, I should also mention that running my Kontakt 4/Jet-City performance test, S1 out-performed Sonar X1, Cubase 5.5, and Reaper(lower CPU reported in TaskManager)

As a Sonar user who goes back to the Compuserve forum days, I'm not ready to uninstall Sonar (or any of my other DAW apps), but S1 Pro has my interest and I'll definitely make use of it.
Kudos on a fine start!


Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com


Howdy Jim :_)

Nice to see you here. I actually was hoping you might check out S1 -- keep in mind the Pro version has a bunch more features (not just VST handling), some of which might also surprise and please ya.

What you've posted is exactly where I'm at with S1. I like a LOT about it, and there are things I'm missing that Sonar has as well. But it's definitely not as bloated up as Sonar has become, which is a good thing.

The audio engine is truly impressive. I haven't had a moment of problems inserting plugins, tweaking things, etc -- other than some graphic glitches caused by Cakewalk products (Rapture and Z3ta+), this thing just rocks.

There's no question Sonar has a ton of features that S1 doesn't *yet* -- but I like the direction of S1 and will be sticking with it.

And like you, I see no reason to give up Sonar either. They both have strengths and weaknesses. Though I would say that if S1 delivers on some immediate needs, Sonar may become my 2nd goto host rather than my first. Though at this time, I am ONLY using S1 actually.

As you mention, there are some drawbacks in the way S1 handles multi-out plugins that does cause me a bit of a workflow struggle (though minor at that). I DO hope this area gets attention quickly.

I'm also happy to hear that YOU hear the difference in the audio engine. I may be passionate about things, ,but I'm not crazy LOL - and neither are you. Something IS different in the sound, and in a good way. Clean, lean, crisp. And the engine just flows so nicely, no matter what I've thrown at it.

So as I've said here and elsewhere, these are VERY interesting times in the DAW market. That can only be a good thing for those of us making music or using our DAWs for whatever creative projects we get into.

We become the beneficiaries of all this competition in the long run.

I do hope Cake sees all this as a wake-up call and gets their act more together (and gets a solid stable X1), but I'm definitely going to continue to be an S1 user along with X1 and may the best DAW win

Welcome aboard Jim. You're always a welcome contributor and great asset wherever you go, and a helpful and knowledge person - and everyone here can certainly benefit from your experience.

I'm bootin' up S1 now to work on a what is my first full song in it (almost done), so good to see ya and ttyl!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 05/02/2011 22:10:06

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

[WWW]
GjS
Prenoob

Joined: 27/12/2010 07:24:23
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Jim Roseberry wrote:


FWIW, I got the NAMM special for S1 Artist... and kept seeing the positive comments from you and Scott. So I decided I needed to give S1 a much closer look.

When I first saw tthe above comment... I was pretty skeptical.
Having now purchased S1 Pro... and loaded the same Kontakt-4 test project (Jet-City drum library)... I can immediately hear a difference between S1 and Sonar. More punch/presence/clarity when playing back in S1 (particularly obvious on Kick and Snare)
As you know, I'm a strong proponent of Sonar... so I don't make this statement lightly.
In this case, it's the exact same MIDI file, triggering the exact same drum/cymbal samples, using the exact same mix.
Not what I expected...

I see a whole lot to like about S1 Pro.
I do miss some more esoteric MIDI editing features (ie: Instrument Definitions, Explode MIDI files to tracks by channel, other scenarios where you might use CAL scripts or the Logical Editor in Cubase, etc) but the basics are there.
One audio feature I miss significantly (from Samplitude, Reaper, and Sonar) is per-item (per clip or segment of audio) based EFX.
This opens up a world of processing possibilities... (snap-shot type automation, easy/accurate/surgical de-essing, etc) and the EFX only load the CPU while the item/clip is playing.

One other simple audio feature I miss is numeric peak-hold meters on tracks, buses, and outputs (highest peak held indefinitely).
You've got a nice plugin meter... but peaks aren't held for long.
Sonar is a good example for this feature. There's some dead space in the S1 GUI where numeric peak-hold meters would fit perfectly.

An unexpected/pleasant surprise was S1's included EFX/processing.
For giggles, I inserted the Tuner and Ampire... and set off do some DI electric bass recording.
The included tuner is actually very useable! As odd as that may sound, many software tuners are so unstable (especially with lower pitch instruments like bass) they're virtually useless. The included tuner worked just fine...
Now on to Ampire. Dialed up the Rocky Bass preset and tweaked it a bit...
Hey... that sounds pretty decent! I'm a sucker for old-school classic (Rock) bass tones... where there's just a little bit of dirt (without the fuzzy bottom end).

It took me a little while to figure out how S1 Pro deals with multi-channel outputs from Kontakt (slightly different than Sonar, Cubase, or Reaper)... but there's just as much routing flexibility as Cubase.
Sonar and Reaper allow completely free routing of any of Kontakt's output channels (doesn't matter that they're multi-channel in Kontakt). Hopefully S1 will gain flexibility is this area... but it's flexible enough to get the job done "as is"

BTW, I should also mention that running my Kontakt 4/Jet-City performance test, S1 out-performed Sonar X1, Cubase 5.5, and Reaper(lower CPU reported in TaskManager)

As a Sonar user who goes back to the Compuserve forum days, I'm not ready to uninstall Sonar (or any of my other DAW apps), but S1 Pro has my interest and I'll definitely make use of it.
Kudos on a fine start!


Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com


Hi Jim

Welcome aboard! It's great to see you here

Reading your post basically sums up my own views.

About the sound?, hmmm I'm not sure but I 'guess' (please correct me if I'm wrong) it might be that Sonar is not true stereo at the very core whereas S1 probably is, thereby S1 has a much more open 'clearer' sound. I guess that's why Cakewalk added 'Stereo Tools', otherwise I swear I can hear pan wavering (gravitating toward the center field) in Sonar whenever there are very similar freq/pitch and that's using mono tracks panned hard L/R and proper track settings including proper pan laws. Anyway like I said in regard to the 'sound' that's just a rough guess and yeah I spend more time in Sonar getting the panning perfect, much like mixing I think panning is an art-form in itself (it can really make a mix sound much greater if the panning is also done well).

I started as a member here on this forum (actually the old-forum, Presonus) since June 2009, back then there's been several updates (point releases; fixes, additional features), Presonus listens to their customers and often participate on these forums, I also have no doubt that they are very efficient at resolving issues.

On a sad note; this forum and it's attitudes toward newcomers (should they dare ask a question) typical responses might follow such as; scrutiny over legit software (S1), assumptions by others basically the 'unwelcome treatment' as other users might jump on that wagon (I hate when that happens). I seen that topic Don posted, and that thread about track freeze! I guess there can also be disrespect over difference of opinions along with occasional 'misunderstandings' and 'misinformation', but anyway this is so typical of any forum. Now with that said and not to be quoted out of context; to be fair and to end on a high note this forum also has a lot of very useful content and at times I guess 'entertaining' is the word

I and others have been active and open minded on the Presonus topics over on the Cakewalk forums, since then there's been a lot of interest about S1, I guess it's 'also' because X didn't quite hit the mark for a lot of people however IMO to be fair I think the pending X1b release should resolve a lot of nags, and I sadly no matter what developers do they cannot please everyone, .... hmmm that new Skylight?, that narrow console?, where's the coffee maker?... oh darn it

Peace to you all. Have a great weekend

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ricstudioc
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GjS wrote:
On a sad note; this forum and it's attitudes toward newcomers (should they dare ask a question) typical responses might follow such as; scrutiny over legit software (S1), assumptions by others basically the 'unwelcome treatment' as other users might jump on that wagon (I hate when that happens). I seen that topic Don posted, and that thread about track freeze! I guess there can also be disrespect over difference of opinions along with occasional 'misunderstandings' and 'misinformation', but anyway this is so typical of any forum. Now with that said and not to be quoted out of context; to be fair and to end on a high note this forum also has a lot of very useful content and at times I guess 'entertaining' is the word


Oh - I have to beg to differ, here. This forum is miles beyond almost any other I've been on for years, in terms of simple patience, helpfulness, and good-naturedness. You been anywhere near the Sonar boards lately? Looks like Cairo over there.

Scrutiny over legit software? Good for them - 'bout time somebody started keeping an eye on that. And if you mean the DonM post, once the initial misunderstandings were cleared up everybody was fine - hell, what was it, 6 posts before Rodney chimed in and confirmed the issue?? You'd never see that over at Cake. And God knows I've been a pain in the ass asking newbie questions for the last month - have never received anything other than cheerful, willing assistance. I actually feel like I belong here....

Just standing up for the nicest little forum I've hung around on, in years. Keep up that sorta talk and I'll have to ask you to step outside, sir. (And look around for a moment, and then go back in, I guess - haven''t a clue where you are...... )
Ric

"The amazing thing about the dancing bear is not how gracefully it dances - it's that it dances at all."
ba-midi
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I'm fairly new here, and I don't sense a negative environment at all (yet).

I've seen a lot of constructive, helpful posts actually.

That being said -- whenver there are 'public' outlets, such as forums, I think one can expect a certain degree of wierdness LOL. It seems to be a human element.

I just try to be civil and focused. I appreciate when others do as well.

So far, my only real complaint is the forum software itself It could use a few feature additions. But oh well

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

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ricstudioc
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ba-midi wrote:

I just try to be civil and focused. I appreciate when others do as well.

So far, my only real complaint is the forum software itself It could use a few feature additions. But oh well



Agreed on both points - I've always appreciated your comments over........ there. And this forum software needs more improvements then the software it represents........
Ric

"The amazing thing about the dancing bear is not how gracefully it dances - it's that it dances at all."
themuzic
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Ric is correct. Presonus folks have popped in here sometimes to point out possible hackers because us regular guys can't tell if they have a registered copy. Presonus CAN!!

I apologize if I've been harsh on a few new posters but it has only happened when someone from Presonus has made me aware of it, either in the thread or by PM.

In fact I almost sent a guy a DVD with the sound sets (because he said he only had dialup) when a Presonus person found he had no valid account. I trusted the guy who did later admit to me he was using a torrent version.

That cheesed me off a bit.

So I apologize if I offended anyone. I like to think I help when I can. However I will not apologize for being careful. If a person can post a question in the Studio One Support part of the forum, then you know they are legit because you need a registered S1 (even the demo) linked to your forum account to post there.

Maybe we should have that here but I'd hate to see a few Hackers spoil it for folks just looking for advice before downloading the demo.

Sorry if you see it differently GjS.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/02/2011 02:31:08


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ba-midi
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ricstudioc wrote:
ba-midi wrote:

I just try to be civil and focused. I appreciate when others do as well.

So far, my only real complaint is the forum software itself It could use a few feature additions. But oh well



Agreed on both points - I've always appreciated your comments over........ there. And this forum software needs more improvements then the software it represents........


Thanks And I agree ... but the software needs a few too (though I'm really liking S1 a lot).
You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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GjS
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You been anywhere near the Sonar boards lately? Looks like Cairo over there.


LOL!

ok OK you made your point. But to be fair there are worse forums and CW has seen better days.

I have not posted over there lately, 'but now I just had a peek' and ARGHHHHHH!!!!

When I see threads go sour I usually stay away, I don't get involved unless I'm inadvertently caught up in it.

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dezacrator
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"More punch/presence/clarity when playing back in S1"

Hi Jim!

Nice to see you. Like you I was very skeptical about wanting/looking at another daw. When you are married for 16 years to the same daw, its a hard breakup. Really tough!

As you pointed out, the audio engine alone is spectacular in Studio One. I have gone from engineering quite a lot in Sonar to "wow it already sounds great unengineered!". No hot center channel, the dynamics "pop", and a new found love for bottom end warmth and clarity.

This is the first daw that made me feel at home within a few nights of using the software. It brought back the "fun factor" of "hey what does this do. Cool. Gapless? wow it runs without a hicup. Hmm lemme see if I can make this crash= it cant be this good.. Negative!" I also like some did the "Hmm this doesn't have X feature..". but then I discovered quite quickly..."oh this is how studio one does it. Actually this is a lot more logical ".

I do still own both copies like Billy, but S1 is my main now. While some features aren't in, the core features that are just astound me and honestly out weights any bell's and whistles at this moment. I hope the Sonar guys get it together, but just the core things that are over on this side will take quite a deal more code then just a X1b patch. I do hope they can get it together soon.

Best Regards,


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/02/2011 03:22:05

Scott Lee (ASCAP)
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ba-midi
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Scott and Jim,

That's the weird thing about S1. The things I miss in it (that Sonar has) don't seem as important at times. Maybe because it doesn't crash, it doesn't gap, etc. I dunno.

But, while I won't say I don't want more features (I wouldn't mind if they borrow some from others lol) -- I can say that whatever I'm missing aren't showstoppers.

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

[WWW]
 
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