image description


After 1.7 - GEQ & Sub Delay Wackiness
  Forum Index » 24.4.2 
Author
Message
mamerica
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 22/10/2010 22:23:56
Messages: 361
Offline

You can still adjust the GEQ on the board without changing the sub delay. That will have to be the work-around until Presonus can address the problem.
StudioLive 24.4.2
StudioLive 16.4.2
Allen & Heath QU-16
MacBook Pro
StudioLive Offline Editor
Furman P-1800 AR 15-amp Power Conditioner and Voltage Regulator
Apple iPad
Outboard Gear:
Oh Wait! I don't need any outboard gear!
[WWW]
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

Welcome Mieko this thread was merged here by the mod squad to keep this topic in one location:

Mieko :


HI Guys,
So far the UC 1.7 update has been fine however last night I believe I may have discovered a bug.... during a gig..

My setup:
SL24 - Main house speakers on the main outs with GEQ 1&2 assigned, front fills speakers on SUB4 with GEQ 4 assigned. 0ms Delay set.

The problem:

There was a delay time of 24.5ms on SUB out 1, and 78ms being applied to each of the remaining Sub outputs.
The thing is, I set the delay time to zero at the sound check and twice during the night, for some reason it had set itself back to 78ms...

At the end of the show I had a play about and discovered that adjusting the 32Hz band on the GEQ assigned to SUB 4 was adjusting the delay time on SUB4 ( and that the 25Hz band would adjust the delay for SUB3, and the 20Hz band on SUB2. I couldn't get it to do the same for SUB1 though..) as it turns out the 78ms is when the GEQ faders are at 0db centre position, 0ms is at -15db and about 250ms at + 15db

I have attached a very short video showing this..


If anyone could have a go at replicating this or has a suggestion as to how I can solve it, I would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Mieko.
Presonus delay.mov
Description SUB OUT Delay & GEQ bug [Disk] Download
Filesize 33733 Kbytes
Downloaded: 10 time(s)

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
Danalee
Prenoob
[Avatar]

Joined: 15/01/2011 14:05:54
Messages: 64
Offline

Monolithent wrote:So from what I'm seeing it doesn't affect the internal routing? Say I wanted to assign my vocal to a sub and then to the main? That's good to know.


Mono, Im not clear on what you are saying...

If I used the subs and assigned them to the mains, will it affect the signal flow or will they be delayed?

That is normally the way I use my subs, but was afraid to at last nights show. Very little setup time, and did not want to chance it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2012 13:57:15

Presonus 24.4.2
PC-Windows 7/64 Bit Pro SP-1
Intel Core Duo 2.10 GHz, 8.00 GB Ram
Netgear router - FOH Macbook

www.wildfirebluesband.com (Bass / Vocal)
www.thenowhereband.com (FOH Sound)
www.zstonez.com (FOH Sound)
TBCTech
Prenoob

Joined: 25/06/2012 03:32:07
Messages: 23
Offline

The delay for each sub is applied to the physical output on the back of the mixer. The delays are not added between the sub and its contribution to the Mains mix.

Therefore, the 1.7 bug relating to the unexpected delay value modification only affects those who use the sub outputs on the back panel - it does not affect the main mix.

While I can hope that this bug is fixed quickly, it may take some serious rework, since it was likely introduced as a byproduct of the routines implemented to enable SMAART wizard functionality.
organsymphony
Prenoob
[Avatar]

Joined: 06/03/2011 14:59:49
Messages: 56
Location: Doncaster, South Yorkshire
Offline

How on earth does something like this get through beta testing? GEQ thing messed up friday nights gig, and then the subgroup ballache messed up last nights. My subs sounded great being delayed by 78ms. (y)

For the sake of useful information same story as everyone else. Delay appeared to happen after making adjustments on the GEQ.
[WWW]
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
Offline

My guess is that there are very few people in the beta team using the SL24. And they just didn't think to use it like this. There are ways to not see it. We are human beings after all.

http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
ministrymusicpa
Prenoob
[Avatar]

Joined: 11/10/2012 05:26:55
Messages: 37
Location: Yacolt Washington
Offline

TBCTech wrote:The delay for each sub is applied to the physical output on the back of the mixer. The delays are not added between the sub and its contribution to the Mains mix.

Therefore, the 1.7 bug relating to the unexpected delay value modification only affects those who use the sub outputs on the back panel - it does not affect the main mix.

While I can hope that this bug is fixed quickly, it may take some serious rework, since it was likely introduced as a byproduct of the routines implemented to enable SMAART wizard functionality.


Has anybody tried going back to 1.6? My firmware updated with the 1.7 download. Will everything go back to the way it was or will the issue possibly remain? I have a pretty big venue coming up Tuesday with little time for trouble shooting. I would like to use the sub outs with consistant, non changing delay times for the two fill zones. It would be nice to not have to worry about using the GEQs in VSL.
Mark Smith
Ministry Music & PA. Helping you spread "The WORD"
www.ministrymusicpa.org
Like us www.facebook.com/ministrymusicpa
6) Mackie s215,2) Mackie s218 subs, 9) Mackie c300 mains/monitors, 4)QSC PLX 3602s,RMX2450s, SL 24.4.2, mobile Dell m4600, i5 2.6ghz,8g,750hd,WinPro7 64, Yamaha 32 ch, Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16....yada,yada,yada....
[WWW]
ministrymusicpa
Prenoob
[Avatar]

Joined: 11/10/2012 05:26:55
Messages: 37
Location: Yacolt Washington
Offline

Monolithent wrote:My guess is that there are very few people in the beta team using the SL24. And they just didn't think to use it like this. There are ways to not see it. We are human beings after all.


You might consider suggesting to them to send new versions out to a few fieldtesters who are actually using the stuff in the field before a full scale release. They could give it a shake down at a non critical time during practice & field tester might have a little better peripheral vision for some of the small stuff.

There is good news and bad news. The good news is Yes, we are all human. The bad news, We are all going to be that way for a long time!
Mark Smith
Ministry Music & PA. Helping you spread "The WORD"
www.ministrymusicpa.org
Like us www.facebook.com/ministrymusicpa
6) Mackie s215,2) Mackie s218 subs, 9) Mackie c300 mains/monitors, 4)QSC PLX 3602s,RMX2450s, SL 24.4.2, mobile Dell m4600, i5 2.6ghz,8g,750hd,WinPro7 64, Yamaha 32 ch, Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16....yada,yada,yada....
[WWW]
Riahdan
Prenoob

Joined: 10/11/2011 12:14:35
Messages: 21
Offline

Did anyone confirm if this issue is specific to the SL24.4.2?

Also, is it true that this "wackiness" only happens if you adjust the GEQ? If you don't touch it at all, then you're safe?

Thank you.
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
Offline

I've run it through my 1642 and have not seen the same issues. I think it is clean for that device and should be for the 1602 as well since the Smaart is not fully implemented.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
ozzystone
Prenoob

Joined: 07/05/2012 22:11:22
Messages: 86
Offline

I have the same problem
and I normally use at least 2 my subs for delays
is there any new patch, update or workaround cause this is prety useless now
or how can I downgrade my mac and board

Thanks
Big Joe Daddy
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 30/07/2010 01:24:03
Messages: 594
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, California
Offline

I just want to get in the mix by subscribing to this thread so when the Presonus boys get this resolved, I'll be notified and put it bed.
StudioLive 24.4.2 | StudioLive 16.4.2 | StudioLive 16.0.2 | QSC K Series 10's, 12's, Subs | Fractal Axe-FX II | Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.4, 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 2TB RAID, 16GB | MacBook Pro | iPad 64GB | Studio One v2.5 | an old watch, a lamp, and a box of crayons
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
Offline

Or I can just call you, Joe
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
chrisatrational
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 12/12/2011 19:02:02
Messages: 138
Location: Putnam, CT
Offline

Monolithent wrote:So here's a thought to keep everyone up and running until we can get this fixed. Set a delay at the lowest you can set. I think it's .1 on each of the subs and may work if you just do it on one of the four. It shouldn't offset the audio enough to be noticeable and it will keep I from changing with the GEQ.

This will keep everyone running until we can get a solution. Everyone cool with that? Give it a test and see what you think of it.


The increments are .5ms, I tried to keep one there and still saw the same behavior. Any new word on this little bugger?
Chat with me on Skype = chris.tsanjoures
[Email] [WWW]
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
Offline

The QA department has been able to verify and reproduce it as of a couple hours ago. So it is officially a problem now. I think they're just trying to tear it down far enough to know what the problem could be at this point.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
 
Forum Index » 24.4.2
Go to: