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Sanity Check - 2x153 and 1x181?
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Monolithent
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Bring the plans to a custom cabinet company to makes the wood pieces. After that is screws, glue, wires, and speakers.
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mwright137
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Seriously, I just don't have the time or patience to build my own.

Does anybody build LABSUBs and sell them? Lol
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knerr
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gadget69 wrote:
Here is a link:
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/resources.aspx
There is a 125 liter (15") and 200 liter (18") version, with little or no difference in performance using the FANE colossus drivers...
Our own JerryD built 4 on my recommendation and he was more than pleased with their performance. In all I have assisted a dozen or so folks the world over and never had anyone that didn't think they were the BOMB!


Very interesting; thanks for the link. Do you know how much each version weighs?

To the OP, and I'm sure I'll get admonished for this, but have you tried or looked into the EV ELX118p? Reviews seem mixed, but it could be worth checking out. You could get two for the price of one 181. Yes, you get what you pay for, etc, and I hate to say it, having a K12/Ksub rig, but a lot of what you're paying for with the "Ks" is the "K".

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Jerryd
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gadget69 wrote:Hi I have built MANY LABsubs and they are BEASTS.. BIG and HEAVY and sound AWESOME. You can (if these drawbacks don't worry you) have a cabinet shop that has CNC router capability) cut out all the pieces for you then all you need to do is assemble... and that's a good idea anyway...because they are a real BITCH to cut out!!!

However, I do have a small, portable, DIY sub design that really, pound for pound kicks ass! and will do everything the KW181 will do sound wise. It's easy to build and with the Paudio driver you can build a pair for just about $500. These you can build with a skill saw if necessary...Build 4 and get something like the Peavey IPR7500 ( 7 Lbs!!) and you'll have PLENTY of low end and a small portable package.for about $1700...

Here is a link:
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/resources.aspx
There is a 125 liter (15") and 200 liter (18") version, with little or no difference in performance using the FANE colossus drivers...
Our own JerryD built 4 on my recommendation and he was more than pleased with their performance. In all I have assisted a dozen or so folks the world over and never had anyone that didn't think they were the BOMB!

To answer Timmy's question they array quite nicely, and do require a slight splay to the front of the cabs @ 2 per side. on top of the subs like I did you don't want them touching anyway as they will rattle if they come together..


I do have these Fane diy models and I couldn't be more pleased. LOOK -- I have been around a lot of name brand subs...... JBL, EAW, EV, Carvin (stick with basses), yamaha, mackie and QSC .... These things are about $500-550 to build completed. For most places I play -- Two of these do fine. Four of them is just right and if i really pushed them -- would start shaking things off the walls. I ran them at an outdoor vineyard show for a 1,000 people and was asked to bring the low end down because of the kick....... come on... someone had a pacemaker and was scared it was gonna get derailed....??

They are literally half to a third of a "name brand" sub and are built incredibly well. The P-Audio 18's I have are great. They have field replaceable baskets if needed. Never an issue so far. Don't require much EQ at all and I don't see the need to place all the expense in the subs when Pro Tops are more crucial.

They are very easy to build. Use 3/4" Baltic Birch. $69 a 4x 8 sheet here. Takes one sheet per sub.

My guess is they weigh close to 85 pounds ....maybe even a 100. Don't know but I can find out. I will get back to you all on this.
DJIceman97
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Any word on what you chose yet?
mwright137
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Are you asking me? Life happened and I couldn't afford to buy any speakers at all. We will be cobbling a system together from pieces the people in the band already own an praying it's enough.

If I had the money, I would go with 2 of the 153's for tops and 4 of the 181's for bottoms - 2 for use in small clubs and all 4 for larger clubs and outdoor gigs. But that's a $7,200 investment that I just can't make right now.

Life happens...lol
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DJIceman97
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mwright137 wrote:Are you asking me? Life happened and I couldn't afford to buy any speakers at all. We will be cobbling a system together from pieces the people in the band already own an praying it's enough.

If I had the money, I would go with 2 of the 153's for tops and 4 of the 181's for bottoms - 2 for use in small clubs and all 4 for larger clubs and outdoor gigs. But that's a $7,200 investment that I just can't make right now.

Life happens...lol


That has to suck. If I was still in PA I would be glad to help you out man. Good luck!
Akstrat
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I guess I will weigh in, Gadget did the show for us where he used my 4-153's, 2-181's, he added his subs/amp. It was an outdoor event and we needed a full sound with horns, etc. In hind sight, we pushed the envelope for an outdoor gig, about 600 in attendance.

Going back to the OP, when I bought our QSC stuff, we wanted portability and the ability to play and match the PA with the gig. I have played small clubs with just 2 of the 153's. Then added the 181's when we needed more bottom end. The 153's alone in deep mode will leave you wondering if you really need subs. The answer most of the time is that the subs really kick ass. But in a pinch, the 153's will do fine in a small bar. I'm not sure the 152's will stand alone. The cost saving between the two (152 vs 153's) is not that much for what separate them. The 152's are lighter and easier to cart around.

My goal is soon add another set of 181's to our setup. For what WE do, that is a ton of sound. Using 4 of the 153's and four of the 181's is huge. After that it is time to bring in the big boys and let them handle the sound. We are a band , not a sound company. Event sound is best left up to the experts. MHO.

rockstardave
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for outdoors i ALWAYS double up subs to tops. 2 subs for every top box. at least. a lot of local guys do 4 subs per top outdoors too.

i think what i'm going to move into next year is the massive stack found in the PDF on page 1 of this thread. 4 subs and 2 tops per side. with the 152s upside down on each other. gnarly!
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DJIceman97
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rockstardave wrote:for outdoors i ALWAYS double up subs to tops. 2 subs for every top box. at least. a lot of local guys do 4 subs per top outdoors too.

i think what i'm going to move into next year is the massive stack found in the PDF on page 1 of this thread. 4 subs and 2 tops per side. with the 152s upside down on each other. gnarly!


Make sure you flip flop that, so the top ones are inverted, not the bottoms, or there may be a lot of comb filtering issues. I may give it a try when I get my 6 KW122's.
rockstardave
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No way- couple the 15s with the bottom one upside Down
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DJIceman97
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rockstardave wrote:No way- couple the 15s with the bottom one upside Down


Really? I figured that would cause more harm than good vs. tops together. Can you explain to me?

Promise, I'm not being a dick, but I've heard both sides. Some say couple mids together for an extra 3dB plus longer throw, and some say couple the highs to prevent HF comb filtering...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 07/09/2012 10:12:00

rockstardave
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Just check the PDF that presonus put out.

In my personal estimation, though, having the bottom one upside down keep the HF at chest height and will be absorbed by the from row of audiences. Allowing the top box (with HF on top) to project HF to the back of the audience.

I don't know if that's true, but that's my guess
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rlwmmw
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This may come out of left field and it may be too late for that matter, but is there any compelling reason you would need powered as opposed to passive speakers?
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gadget69
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Rockstardave wrote:
No way- couple the 15s with the bottom one upside Down


I don't find the PDF mentioned but typically if your going to put 4 tops in stacks of 2 (2 way boxes) you would put the horns together so they would couple and cause less phasing and cancellations in the HF area... That would be 2 tops side by side sitting woofer down, horn up, and 2 inverted on top of those. (make sure your going to secure these so they can't fall) IF you are covering different vertical planes with this config (angling the speakers down and up to cover a greater VERTICAL range then this may not be necessary unless the patterns are too big vertically (like 80 or 90 degrees vertical) They should also be splayed to offer only pattern coverage in the horizontal plane as well.

rlwmmw, That is a good question, one that can be answered (but not justified in my mind totally) the typical answer is
1. Portability (size and weight)
2. ease of setup and teardown
3. simplicity
4. Newer powered speakers often have DSP built in and are pretty well tuned right out of the box (this is the MOST compelling argumant)
5. cuts down on cord clutter ( see setup and teardown)
6. Did I say lighter weight?...usually smaller and MUCH lighter than a speakers and amps racks...
7. More cost effective then speakers AND amps...
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