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blocks, clips, session, matrix or some form of pattern based sequencing
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reversoulmusic
Prenoob

Joined: 29/07/2010 00:29:01
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NO Blocks &/or Patterns PLEEEASE thats why they have Fl Studio jeez folks u cant have everything
saintjoe
Presonic
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reversoulmusic wrote:NO Blocks &/or Patterns PLEEEASE thats why they have Fl Studio jeez folks u cant have everything


lol, what does flstudio have to do with anything?

patterns and linear sequencing together is not a new concept

do you not know that flstudio has linear AS WELL as pattern recording?

how about cubase, live, sonar, reason? All have both

heck my roland keybard from 6 years ago has pattern AND linear sequencing

these are just normal tool of production, don't want it, don't use it

I really don't understand the adversity to having options, no one is forcing you to use
anything you don't want.

I don't use everything that's in s1 now, but that doesn't mean I think it should be removed

I don't have any use for some of the other features being planned or requested, it still
doesn't bother me, I just won't use them...it's really not that hard to do

so, I will be expecting you to put this same response on every other feature request since

"u can't have everything"

you do realize a lot of what you may love about s1 started as a feature request at some point right?
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bigcohoona
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Joined: 29/07/2010 23:15:11
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I just read Jonathon's post concerning Presonus' monitoring of this thread.

So where do other DAW's fall short.....

1. Sonar's Matrix....Not Mac! That's all, except that Sonar is too cluttered and a little unwieldy feeling in it's GUI, great sounding DAW.

2. Ableton - Where to start...I'm with the previous post, although I use the session view in Ableton, I don't use it for composing just getting ideas. Sometimes I'll mash some loops together then bounce them down but I primarily use the linear view. If the session view were right to left instead of vertical I would use it far more as it would translate more easily into the linear view. I also love the audio and instrument "rack" concept in Live. Having all the controls for each grouping of effects right in one place is a phenomenal workflow enhancer for me. The other small thing that drives me nuts is how small the "stop" function for each clip/track is...give me a way to quickly stop what I'm playing live (even if I don't have a controller. Live also just feels a little too clinical for me. S1 is a little more elegant. Of course you guys are from LA...better Gumbo = better elegance

3. Blocks in Reason - I'm a beta tester for Reason 5 and Record 1.5....the problem is Reason is a closed system. Yes that makes it more stable but I don't care how many fanboys chime in here, Ominsphere, Stylus RMX, Evolve, Morphestra, and Project Sam, sounds/samples are superior to almost anything I've heard in Reason. And more importantly I use them every day, so I am not about to give up my favorite AU/VST's. As to Props' Blocks concept I like their take on blocks more than Cubase's workflow.

~C

"The Art of 'good enough' is often the key to an artisan's success"

--Mac Pro, S1, Ableton, Spectrasonics, NI, Miktek & Blue Mics, Mcpherson & Taylor Guitars, Schroeder's Piano, and a Partridge Family 8-track.
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db
Presonoid
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Joined: 29/07/2010 13:10:59
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I think something else PreSonus should consider is at least (if necessary) starting with some level of pattern and cell based feature in S1.

Something that can be built on in future. It does not have to be the best of breed with the first offering. If need be just something to start with then build on that.

Another idea for this FR...

A Cell / trigger track type within S1 that can be inserted anywhere in the arrangement. This track can have clips that can be triggered to repeat at various set values e.t.c

One could consolidate this track to bounce down to audio to a standard track.

This new track type could allow for MIDI and / or Audio clip triggering.
Dubstep and House Music by Thedmncproject

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bigcohoona
Presonic
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Something that can be built on in future. It does not have to be the best of breed with the first offering. If need be just something to start with then build on that.

A Cell / trigger track type within S1 that can be inserted anywhere in the arrangement. This track can have clips that can be triggered to repeat at various set values e.t.c



I agree with the "don't despise small beginnings".

This "Trigger Cell" idea is interesting. Do you mean something similar to Sonar's automation clips?

Another usable take on your idea would be to have a "Trigger Tool" which would bring all your clips in a given song together in a matrix looking window where you could listen, edit, reorder, or even combine & save to another cell. If you could select another new feature "Tracks to Cells" which essentially would make each track it's own "trigger" cell you would essentially have a very programmable way to perform. You could have different songs on each track and just trigger the background or have a more complex setup.

Great idea, thanks for posting.

big~C

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/08/2010 10:11:31

"The Art of 'good enough' is often the key to an artisan's success"

--Mac Pro, S1, Ableton, Spectrasonics, NI, Miktek & Blue Mics, Mcpherson & Taylor Guitars, Schroeder's Piano, and a Partridge Family 8-track.
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sfd27
Prenoob
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Joined: 28/07/2010 18:41:15
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Maby not the same, but something like an independent "Arranger Track" should be handy.

Edit: Opened a separate request thread for it
http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/2833.page


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 05/08/2010 14:53:07

db
Presonoid
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bigcohoona wrote:This "Trigger Cell" idea is interesting. Do you mean something similar to Sonar's automation clips?


Probably not similar to Sonars handling of clip automation.

I don't think any host has a trigger track that can be placed anywhere in an arrangement yet. Could be an S1 exclusive.

Another usable take on your idea would be to have a "Trigger Tool" which would bring all your clips in a given song together in a matrix looking window where you could listen, edit, reorder, or even combine & save to another cell. If you could select another new feature "Tracks to Cells" which essentially would make each track it's own "trigger" cell you would essentially have a very programmable way to perform. You could have different songs on each track and just trigger the background or have a more complex setup.

Great idea, thanks for posting.

big~C


Yeah that is an interesting take on the idea. Great.

@sfd27

Nice mock up.

So many excellent ideas have been posted already. A dedicated FR forum is a great idea as hot FR topics like this can stay visible for much longer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/08/2010 13:51:49

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MarkyGoldstein
Presonic

Joined: 01/08/2010 12:43:32
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I want to drag and drop (and paint) a pattern from an instrument, and I mean not Midi. Not a MIdi Pattern / Part. Not a Midi Note. A real Pattern. It's just a reference to play the Pattern, like A1, A2, A3, etc. Pattern Lanes from Reason are to be studied for this.

Of course I think we need Sections / Blocks / Scenes too, and yes they should be trigger-able and the triggering should be recordable. You should really studio Ableton Live for this and observe the details on how this is achieved... Clips are actually played by an internal sampler that can play the slices and stretch them in realtime... and the Clips, as well as the Scenes, can be triggered like an MPC in realtime or at the start of the next bar... and then you can record this again into the arrangement view, whatever and whenever you hit it. And you can even realtime modulate the tempo.

Greetings

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 04/08/2010 23:53:37

My system: Mac Pro 2012v with the latest OS-X and the latest Studio One DAW and the latest plugins. It's always up2date, to every component. I use Internet studio management software (PluginUpdate, Mac OS X App Store, Update Checkers, KVR, etc.). It's the bleeding latest with every bug fix available applied.
bigcohoona
Presonic
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You know I find it sort of funny that half of the things that are being described are already in Reason and Live!

Goes to show that because the developers did not listen to their peeps...their peeps are migrating.

Actually Ableton does a great job of interacting with its user base, but they have had bug issues with 8 which has slowed them down.

But I can't believe that Reason/Record did not have VST/AU support in this last upgrade...plus their supposedly "easy" to use setup in Record is extremely difficult to look at and fatiguing to use.

Golden opportunity Presonus....sort of like Macs when Vista hit the street....hit it crawling

big~C
"The Art of 'good enough' is often the key to an artisan's success"

--Mac Pro, S1, Ableton, Spectrasonics, NI, Miktek & Blue Mics, Mcpherson & Taylor Guitars, Schroeder's Piano, and a Partridge Family 8-track.
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MarkyGoldstein
Presonic

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I think we are aiming for the perfect blend. Reason and Live are at the extreme end of two inventions that are more influential than just another normal DAW (linear recording machine).

I don't know Sonars Matrix well enough, just read about it, but I never tested it - I read it has somehow another concept, but similar to Ableton Live.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/08/2010 21:08:21

My system: Mac Pro 2012v with the latest OS-X and the latest Studio One DAW and the latest plugins. It's always up2date, to every component. I use Internet studio management software (PluginUpdate, Mac OS X App Store, Update Checkers, KVR, etc.). It's the bleeding latest with every bug fix available applied.
MarkyGoldstein
Presonic

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By the way: studying Matrix on Youtube for Sonar 8.5 is worth the minutes... looks very good to me. They looked at Ableton and they decided for some difference and it looks quite nice (although basic).
My system: Mac Pro 2012v with the latest OS-X and the latest Studio One DAW and the latest plugins. It's always up2date, to every component. I use Internet studio management software (PluginUpdate, Mac OS X App Store, Update Checkers, KVR, etc.). It's the bleeding latest with every bug fix available applied.
Gorgon
Prenoob
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Joined: 05/08/2010 00:31:29
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So may ideas come in to my mind with this, recording non stop arranging on the go, puting one block in front of the other without stoping, repeating entire song parts withouts stoping, that would really be WORK FLOW

But really, if this gets implemented it would be really good if you could midi or keyboard map for default blocks. For example, record, block ends, starts looping that block, press key "shift + 1" for block one to copy it n front of it in the main window, record enable another track with a key, make another block, then hit one key so that after the current block ends it starts at the block number selected, for example having block 1, 2, 3, 4 press 2 and go back.

This would be a dream come true. If you understood any of what I said before of course

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/08/2010 09:33:32

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MarkyGoldstein
Presonic

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Yes, this approach sounds very interesting and well explained. I think there is a lot of potential for "live" style work in the studio and composition workflow.
My system: Mac Pro 2012v with the latest OS-X and the latest Studio One DAW and the latest plugins. It's always up2date, to every component. I use Internet studio management software (PluginUpdate, Mac OS X App Store, Update Checkers, KVR, etc.). It's the bleeding latest with every bug fix available applied.
saintjoe
Presonic
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I tried Reason 5 this morning, the way they implemented blocks is pretty dang perfect in my opinion.

It's still "linear" so to speak, so you can make your blocks/sections as long as you want and have them loop.

But you get to work on specific sections at a time, basically working on patterns, which you can then paint into the song
sequencer...

so you have a track where you can draw in/place your various blocks, but you still have all the regular linear tracks

I really liked it...but I don't like Reason as a whole, the interface is too skinny for me, I don't like all the up and down
scrolling lol.

But they got blocks right for sure, would love to see something like this in s1, I can only imagine!
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MarkyGoldstein
Presonic

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Yeah, looks amazing.
My system: Mac Pro 2012v with the latest OS-X and the latest Studio One DAW and the latest plugins. It's always up2date, to every component. I use Internet studio management software (PluginUpdate, Mac OS X App Store, Update Checkers, KVR, etc.). It's the bleeding latest with every bug fix available applied.
 
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