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Group Mix #4: "Come Back" by Crow
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roblof
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No extra instruments or samples were used in this mix.

All stuff is from your original material - I.e. Your raw trax + mixing and processing only.
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graytermedia
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Just coming back from vacation. Is it too late to get in on this?

Terry
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crow
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roblof wrote:No extra instruments or samples were used in this mix.

All stuff is from your original material - I.e. Your raw trax + mixing and processing only.



there is a key in there that i didnt put in unless u changed the sound to something i put in there. i cant lie i do like the mix it sounds dark like i said a zone out type vibe. but everybody must remember i am not a pro at mixing i just rap so ima leave that stuff up to gizzmo and who ever else that know there stuff im just leting everybody know what i think of the mix.Where u at gizzmo????
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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crow
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graytermedia wrote:Just coming back from vacation. Is it too late to get in on this?

Terry



Nope jump right in there are no rules.Make it Shine!!!
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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roblof
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crow wrote:
roblof wrote:No extra instruments or samples were used in this mix.

All stuff is from your original material - I.e. Your raw trax + mixing and processing only.



there is a key in there that i didnt put in unless u changed the sound to something i put in there. i cant lie i do like the mix it sounds dark like i said a zone out type vibe. but everybody must remember i am not a pro at mixing i just rap so ima leave that stuff up to gizzmo and who ever else that know there stuff im just leting everybody know what i think of the mix.Where u at gizzmo????

There is some heavy processing going on with the instruments

That's cool Crow . I'm just trying to figure out what you mean . Since I'm not native english I'm slightly unfamiliar with how you 'speak'

Btw, I don't speak hip-hop so I'm in virgin territory here
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crow
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roblof wrote:
crow wrote:
roblof wrote:No extra instruments or samples were used in this mix.

All stuff is from your original material - I.e. Your raw trax + mixing and processing only.



there is a key in there that i didnt put in unless u changed the sound to something i put in there. i cant lie i do like the mix it sounds dark like i said a zone out type vibe. but everybody must remember i am not a pro at mixing i just rap so ima leave that stuff up to gizzmo and who ever else that know there stuff im just leting everybody know what i think of the mix.Where u at gizzmo????

There is some heavy processing going on with the instruments

That's cool Crow . I'm just trying to figure out what you mean . Since I'm not native english I'm slightly unfamiliar with how you 'speak'

Btw, I don't speak hip-hop so I'm in virgin territory here




speaking hiphop?lol sorry what im ment by zone out type vibe is if u are going through something that makes you feal down you could listen to this mix and get lost in to the fealings in it. that means a good thing
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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LMike
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Here's the whole new track, as far as I'll go with it currently anyway, production wise and mix wise. Hope you like it. I'm gonna store that beat for use later on something else so consider it non-commercial CC licensed.

I intentionally kept everything pretty dry verb-wise to try keep it a little more raw.



P.S. Replay this later. I need to upload again because the string transitional leading into the last chorus needed a velocity edit, not hitting hard enough. If it's not 4:00 long it's still uploading, replacing.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 09/04/2012 20:41:03

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crow
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LMike wrote:Here's the whole new track, as far as I'll go with it currently anyway, production wise and mix wise. Hope you like it. I'm gonna store that beat for use later on something else so consider it non-commercial CC licensed.

I intentionally kept everything pretty dry verb-wise to try keep it a little more raw.



P.S. Replay this later. I need to upload again because the string transitional leading into the last chorus needed a velocity edit, not hitting hard enough. If it's not 4:00 long it's still uploading, replacing.



GREAT JOB!!!
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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roblof
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LMike wrote:I listened and decided to redo the entire music track rather than mix it. A short snippet of the intro and hook is below.

[flash gordon]<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.google.com/reader/ui/3523697345-audio-player.swf" flashvars="audioUrl=http://theaudiocave.com/mixes/comeback.mp3" width="400" height="27" quality="best"></embed>[/flash gordon]

Hi Mike!

Your embedded code doesn't work on most recent IE. Chrome, FF have no problem.

A quick google gave some options to resolve the issue:ยจ
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=flash+movie+not+shown+in+ie

Oh, and on the iphone/ipad it's a no go as well

I extracted the url from your code but others may struggle.....

Btw, I liked yor work, even though I'm mostly a rock/blues/funk guy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/04/2012 23:09:55

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Gizzmo0815
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Crow,

I'm still here. Just been on the road the past few days, but I'm watching the thread. I updated the first post with the submitted mixes so far.

Here are a few of my thoughts on the track you submitted and some of the mixes so far:

(All of the following is my very subjective opinion...take it as such...if you disagree let me (us) know why so we can have as many discussion points as possible!)

1) The original material is recorded well. A common problem that I've encountered with a lot of hip-hop/rap artists is their desire to make the vocals really "punchy" by oversinging the lyrics. Sometimes they enunciate things in a non-natural way which can make the lyrics hard to hear clearly. In this regard Crow does a great job of keeping things clear and understandable. The genre has a wide range of "purposes" from dance songs to songs with a message. In songs that are designed for club or dance purposes the lyrics may not be quite as important as the rhythm and instrumentation. But in this case it's quite important that the lyrics be heard. Crow is trying to get a point across, and if you couldn't understand him, the song becomes somewhat meaningless. So good work there!

Also his singing is in good time and for the most part matches the instrumentation. Tuning is somewhat less important in genre's that are more "spoken word" in nature, but there are still tuning factors to consider as well. Crow does a good job here also. Little editing needed in the vocals, which is always a good thing in my opinion!

2) The original instrumentation and "loops" are somewhat repetitive. If this is more of a scratch track built in order to get the vocals down then that's fine, as long as there is some consideration given to that point later on in the production process.

Because Crow has given us the latitude to change the tracks, I actually like LMike's submission the best so far. His arrangement choices keep the song moving because he makes some changes that keep it interesting to listen to throughout. These are things that don't necessarily fall into the lap of the "mixing engineer" but are more "producer" decisions. In this case Crow has allowed us a good margin of freedom so it's all good. I would, however, always keep the artist in the loop when making decisions like this (if I were hired to do this kind of work).

I do, however, feel that LMike's track is a tiny bit bass heavy. When I listen to it on headphones or on a typical "home theater" system, the vocals do sound a little bit buried to me. But I understand why that choice might have been made. It's a common thing in this genre to have a very bass focused mix. So it's not an odd decision by any means.

Balance-wise I like Gateway's mix the most so far. It's a good balance between the instrumentation and the vocals. I can hear everything pretty clearly and each element has it's own "space", which may be one of the more difficult concepts to work out when folks first start out with mixing.

Robolof's mix is a much more ambient choice. I.E. there is a lot more reverb on the vocals, and the instrumentation is much less focused than in Gateway's. Not necessarily a bad thing, just a different choice. (don't take it personally, we're all friends here). One potential problem with this direction is that it might be considered a "muddy" mix...usually because of the interaction between instruments/vocals that occurs in the middle frequencies (300-800hz). Truly it just depends on what the artist is looking for. For this track, I'm not sure it's the best choice, but it's certainly a different option than a tightly focused mix.

3) Reference tracks...always use reference tracks! I would prefer to have one suggested to me by the artist. But sometimes the artist may not even know what he/she is looking for. So in this case I chose one myself.

I decided that Crow's vocals have some similar qualities as Eminem (not in content or lyrics but in tone and quality). And when I heard LMike's instrumentation choices I was immediately reminded of "Lose Yourself".

Listen to LMike's submission:



Then listen to "Lose Yourself":



The ambiance in both tracks is similar when I listen to them. And when I listen to both I hear some similar qualities between their vocals. Instrumentation is different (guitar instead of piano in the intro), but the sound of Lose Yourself might be one direction that you might guide Crow's track towards.

Why do this? Why compare? Because it gives you a vision, or a road map, as either the artist or the mixing engineer, for what kind of sound you want. Without that "end state" in your mind, it can sometimes be VERY difficult to stop tweaking because you don't really know when you've reached your goal. To that end I always like to have some kind of reference to go on.

When I work with my mix on Crow's track I'll be using "Lose Yourself" as a reference for the overall sound. I also think there are some similar qualities to Tupac's vocals in Crow's rapping (his style and rhythm are similar to a few of Tupac's songs...more of an old school, less aggressive, more "bouncy" type of style...if that makes any sense at all). The original instrumentation Crow submitted reminds me of his style more as well. So I may cue up a few of his tracks to compare.

Using reference tracks also provides you with a way to ground yourself on the system you're working on. If you know what a "known quantity" like a professionally mixed/mastered track sounds like on your rig, and you can emulate that on your rig, you're one step closer towards being able to provide a nice balanced mix.

Understand, however, that the choice of reference track is almost completely subjective to the artist, or the mix engineer. What sounds good to me might sound horrible to the next person, so there's always that element of taste to consider as well.

I'll add more as it comes to me...

I hope more people submit mixes...the more the merrier and the more ideas submitted the more we have to talk about! And if anyone has similar thoughts, comments etc...please don't hesitate to write them out.

- Gizz

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 10/04/2012 06:39:10

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riddim
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Nice post Gizz.
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crow
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great job gizzmo u hit it on the spot!!!
LIFE IS A SCHOOL! SO TELL ME WHAT DID YOU LEARN?


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LMike
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Gizzmo0815 wrote:I do, however, feel that LMike's track is a tiny bit bass heavy. When I listen to it on headphones or on a typical "home theater" system, the vocals do sound a little bit buried to me. But I understand why that choice might have been made. t.
- Gizz


Thanks for the feedback. I actually didn't spend very much time on that mix, just on the new production, so I posted the production mix more for the different backing track, not really for the mixoff thing. I did reference the rough mix a bit at the end though, to a Wiz Khalifa mix tape. In these cases I tend to go a little heavy on the low end (pre-mastering) knowing that mastering engineers often would rather - if you're gonna miss the low end - that you miss a little over than cut too much low end.

Anyway, I'm glad you liked the new track. Thanks Giz.

P.S. Your observation of the original track was pretty much spot on. I wasn't really "feeling it", the backing track (no offense to Crow) so I decided to produce new music for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/04/2012 16:51:05

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gospeltunes
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I want to listen to some of the mixes, but on many post, all I see is a blank white box (on my laptop). What do I need to do to my computer to listen to these?
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LMike
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gospeltunes wrote:I want to listen to some of the mixes, but on many post, all I see is a blank white box (on my laptop). What do I need to do to my computer to listen to these?


The links to mine is flash, which won't show up on some iStuff I guess.

Here's a direct link. Come Back
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