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Tmothy
Prenoob
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Joined: 15/01/2011 17:00:42
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I am a longtime user of Cakewalk. All the way from the Pro Audio 9 Days. I was introduced to Studio 1 when I bought my Presonus Audio Interface.

I now have Sonar X2a 64 bit.

I build my own DAW machines and optimize my OS for recording,this is the only explanation I can offer for as to why I have not personally experienced these bugs so many others mention. Admittedly I have the occasional freeze and usually I find out it was one of my VSTs not cooperating,so I am reluctant to blame Sonar for these kinds of problems.

It would also make perfect sense to me that people who did have problems with the software would look somewhere else and might end up here, or maybe someone using Sonar might be looking for a better workflow in another DAW. I can't fault anyone for doing that. All I am saying is that there will likely be a larger number of folks here who had problems because the happy contented people are still on Sonar and loving it, or at least finding that it works for them in the best way.

In my case I mostly play recorded parts played live with minimal audio manipulation going on. I use a ton of VSTs and master with Ozone 5 and TRacks. I love the Pro Channel in Sonar with the ability to dock and undock windows, use keystrokes to make windows appear and disappear(among many other things). Manipulation of audio and midi is really easy in Sonar. Demoing loops and changing a software instrument in Sonar within the same track is a cinch. Audio snap works if you know how to use it.It is not easy to grasp though IMHO.

I can't really say why I didn't mind the GUI change from 8.5 to X1 with subsequent changes in X2, but I didn't....not one bit. In fact, it made my job easier. Effects chains can be loaded into any track and you can make your own effects chains in any order.

So I really don't see any advantage to me in going to S1. I'm not knocking it. I like the integrated Melodyne features it has(although I have the Melodyne plug-in in Sonar). It seems to be really loaded up on plug-ins. Many like the functionality of the GUI over Sonar. I think you could do much worse than S1 as a recording platform. I think the complexity of Sonar is one of its selling points. At one time or another all of us will need to do something we didn't think we needed to do. Chances are Sonar will do that.

I don't really buy into the idea of having two DAWs...at least for me. I prefer to do it all efficiently in one program if at all possible ....different strokes I suppose.Now that Sonar has integrated touch screen capability into the software there are lots of other possibilities.

If you guys offer the 99.00 upgrade to S1 from the toy version again I might just poke my nose into it a little deeper. I'm not against giving it a spin...who knows...maybe I'll really like it for some things I do.At this point though I have too much invested in Sonar to use S1 for anything but a second option.

On the Cakewalk Forums- I have over 3500 posts over there so maybe I'm one of those guys who talks too much lol... I would rather be making music but my particular situation doesn't allow that until later in the day. I love to talk music and music technology. I'll be the first to admit that Bitflipper and Ol Pal are eons ahead of me in knowledge. I try to help people with the level I am at and I think I manage to do that sometimes. I am sorry to see some of you go away either because of personal conflicts with other members or frustrations over the software that were unresolved.

Consider me hybrid user at this point ...I love my Presonus Firetube Studio interface. All my audio has to pass though it before it goes to my DAW software .

Music- http://snd.sc/100qSk4
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hibidy
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Joined: 01/02/2011 09:13:29
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This is a pretty old thread.

Anyways two thoughts: I miss Billy....


and I won't ever touch sonar again AND that has nothing to do with S1, I've just made a choice and moved on from it.
New computer:

2.6.2/win7x64 ultimate/SSD os and library/i7 4770/16GB ram

Focusrite saffire 14/Novation impulse 49/tons of VST goodies

thunderkyss
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Joined: 16/04/2013 16:10:26
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Tmothy wrote:

I build my own DAW machines and optimize my OS for recording,this is the only explanation I can offer for as to why I have not personally experienced these bugs so many others mention. Admittedly I have the occasional freeze and usually I find out it was one of my VSTs not cooperating,so I am reluctant to blame Sonar for these kinds of problems.



I built my own as well. never went with the latest & greatest, but I'd go with a proven combination that I would find on the Sonar forum. I've never had a problem with bugs, but I was never a power user, my most serious work was done on hardware digital multitrack recorder. I worked faster with all the controls I had, than I could with a mouse.

I used Sonar primarily for writing, cataloging ideas, trying stuff out. & at times as a sound module. I still sequence on a Fantom-S or a MV-8800....

My two biggest gripes about Sonar, you had to press stop to unarm a track, then arm another. I liked programs like Reason or Logic, where you could go from one track to the next without hitting stop. You could stop recording, disable recording on one track, move to another, arm it for recording, then enable recording, & the music never stopped.

The second was that they were developing more for engineers & producers. I didn't care about summing rules, & pdc, surround sound, or video. I wanted improved looping, audio warp, beat detection, audio to midi, phrases, instruments, beat matching
Tmothy
Prenoob
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Joined: 15/01/2011 17:00:42
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thunderkyss , not sure which version of Sonar you used. X1 and X2 have the matrix view which allows for an Ableton like experience. Dropping, moving loops around all while the audio is playing. Granted not as dedicated a looper as Ableton. I have used Ableton and Sony Acid and I like working that way sometimes. What are you doing with Audio to Midi? Just curious. I seldom use that, but have used it for bass tracks occasionally.

I do the same thing as you and build a good computer using tried and proven hardware and chipsets, but maybe not the most recent. I am strictly an intel man. I believe I get the maximum computer for the money this way. Running a quad Q8600 8gb ram on a 64 bit system I can record lots of audio tracks and load every channel up with things like Kontakt 5 and BFD 2 . Most serious recordists doing everything in the box will eventually end up with outboard instruments anyways, not that the instruemnts in Sonar won't get you started off well. You have Dimension Pro in the producer edition loaded up with some pretty sweet sample libraries. ZT1a, Session Drummer 3 just to name a few.Some decent loops. If a person can't make music with the starting palette they probably can't make music. Every month Cakewalk has a givaway for X2 users. This month it's the "Rock Legends" library from Platinum Samples. I tried it out on Saturday and it sounds pretty good.

I entirely get your point about keeping a setup simple. In this case though it's not a use it or you loose it thing. The features are there and if you don't want them they lay in the background. I could get any number of DAW software to run a few audio tracks into my computer simply. I could get Reaper or Magix. Sure....lots of people have done and are doing that.

In my case I got into the Cakewalk game years ago at a good price. From this point on any upgrade I decide to buy is much less than someone who is buying Sonar for the first time. Once you take the initial hit it gets less expensive. Not sure about Studio 1 as a demo. In the case of Sonar you can download a demo for free. No matter which DAW you use there is a learning curve. If I bought Studio 1 today I would need some education on it no doubt. For me Sonar is very intuitive. I like having the ability to drag any window I want over any place on my dual monitor setup and save that into my setup for later.

I DO NOT work for Cakewalk and I'm not here to try and change your mind on your chosen DAW. I like the guys over here at Presonus. I think you have excellent hardware and software. Presonus has made some real cutting edge products in the last few years. They are always improving. One of the companies to look at when looking to buy anything concerning audio.
Music- http://snd.sc/100qSk4
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jamusic
Presonic
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Joined: 05/11/2010 10:28:43
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Hmmm...myself, I never thought anything wrong with Sonar's UI. I'm trying to think what's horrendous about it, as mentioned a few times here, but nothing comes to mind.


Maybe upon initial start up it looks all crammed up, but I think it's anticipated that you'll set up your own templates and screen sets soon enough.

I guess it may just be me, but I'm ok with it. Being able to move all but the main track view to other monitors is also handy, [although S1 can do that as well].

The quick hiding of the windows with key presses B, C & D for Browser, Control Bar and Console respectively seem really easy and convenient.


Inside every old Man...........is a younger Man wondering.........."What the hell happened?!"

Intel Core i7-2600K CPU - 3.4 Ghz * 16 Gigs Ram * 240G, 128G, 64G SSDs * Triple Monitors
Windows 7-64 Bit * StudioLive 16.4.2 Mixer * TC Electronics SK48 * Studio One Professional v2.5 * Sonar X2a Producer
Neumann TLM 103 * DBX 376 Compressor/PreAmp * ART DPSII PreAmp * Roland UM-550 MIDI Patchbay
Event ASP-6 & Roland MA-15D Speakers * Novation ReMote 37 SL * Yamaha P-200 Piano * RP-X Piano Module
1995 - 4003 FireGlow Rickenbacker * 6 Guitars * TD-6 V-Drums * Roland P-330 Piano Module
Yamaha MU90R * Korg O5R/W * Roland M-SE-1 String Ensemble * Korg EX-8000 [DW-8000] Module
hibidy
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Joined: 01/02/2011 09:13:29
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see, I don't understand at all.

I'm not going into my life long history with sonar, but it DOESN'T WORK.

When I turn on studio one, by and large things work. AND it's clean and lean for the most part. I can't do that in sonar.

So, considering the total cost I have into sonar is nothing but frustration and grief, where after 2.5, S1 hums along nicely. I only have one real complaint and that is the flickering cpu meter. If they ever tried to figure that out, It's good enough for me. I just want to go point a to b w/o strife.
New computer:

2.6.2/win7x64 ultimate/SSD os and library/i7 4770/16GB ram

Focusrite saffire 14/Novation impulse 49/tons of VST goodies

SkylineUK
Presonic
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Joined: 14/01/2011 17:18:03
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Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Sonar has always worked for me, For a couple of years I've been using both Sonar and S1 for various reasons I won't recite here.

What has just totally pi**ed me off with Sonar though is that a few weeks ago they replaced their broken forum software and the new software is even more broken!! It's a total farrago and this from programmers!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 19/06/2013 09:51:57

Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM 1TB RAID storage.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.
Presonus Studio One 2 Professional 2.6.1
Sonar X3d
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Jlien X
Presonic
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Joined: 21/03/2013 13:02:31
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I hope both daws will continue improving and both users will be happy.
PC: ProBook 4710s, Core2 Duo CPU T9600 @2.80GHz, 8GB RAM
OS: Windows 7 Professional (Japanese) 64-bit SP1
Audio/MIDI: Quad-Capture (interface), A-800PRO (keyboard controller)
DAW: Studio One Producer 2.6.2 (64-bit), SONAR X3e (64-bit)
jamusic
Presonic
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Joined: 05/11/2010 10:28:43
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SkylineUK wrote:What has just totally pi**ed me off with Sonar though is that a few weeks ago they replaced their broken forum software and the new software is even more broken!! It's a total farrago and this from programmers!!


I must agree here. You'd think programmers would get it right.

I realize that they have probably paid an outside party to do this for them, but in the current light of so many users waiting and waiting after literally begging for updates & bug fixes, I would being nothing short of embarrassed to have this 'on display' as their first push forward in months.
Inside every old Man...........is a younger Man wondering.........."What the hell happened?!"

Intel Core i7-2600K CPU - 3.4 Ghz * 16 Gigs Ram * 240G, 128G, 64G SSDs * Triple Monitors
Windows 7-64 Bit * StudioLive 16.4.2 Mixer * TC Electronics SK48 * Studio One Professional v2.5 * Sonar X2a Producer
Neumann TLM 103 * DBX 376 Compressor/PreAmp * ART DPSII PreAmp * Roland UM-550 MIDI Patchbay
Event ASP-6 & Roland MA-15D Speakers * Novation ReMote 37 SL * Yamaha P-200 Piano * RP-X Piano Module
1995 - 4003 FireGlow Rickenbacker * 6 Guitars * TD-6 V-Drums * Roland P-330 Piano Module
Yamaha MU90R * Korg O5R/W * Roland M-SE-1 String Ensemble * Korg EX-8000 [DW-8000] Module
Bub
Presonic
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Joined: 28/08/2013 22:12:35
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Location: Peculiar, MO
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Wow! What a thread!

Now this is one I can really sink my teeth in to eh Skyline?

I'm stunned at some of the names I see here from my old battlegrounds! I mean, sheesh, ya think you know a total stranger on the internet and bam!

Anyway ...

My apologies for reviving a 2 month old thread, but I see it's been jump started a few times now so I don't think it's too inappropriate.

Allow myself to introduce myself ... Bub here ... former Sonar user/heavy forum contributor.

Started on Pro Audio 9 in a friends home studio and ended on X2b in my home studio. I just couldn't take it anymore after the X Series travesty. I could sit here and spout off about all the sickening details, but I did enough of that on their forum, and got permanently banned for it. I was praising Studio One so much that they got tired of it and gave me the boot. I can understand that in all fairness, but they didn't have to make it permanent. What it all boils down to is, Studio One just works better. Period. And after almost 20 years, you can't say I didn't try batter boys!

At any rate, I absolutely love Studio One Producer, and that's not something I could ever say about Mr. X all the way back to my PA9 days. There is a couple of things I missed from Mr. X, but I couldn't tell you what they were now if my life depended on it. The tiny things that are missing in Studio One compared to Mr. X, are things I/you can live without, or you would be better served by purchasing a quality 3rd party app. For example, real notation software, not some remnant of an early 80's pipe dream that's left in as an afterthought.

On the same hardware that Mr. X brought to a screeching halt, Studio One has run without a single BSOD, driver problem, latency problem, VST problem (even the ones included with Mr. X that don't work in Mr. X which is sad), corrupted project ... Nadda. It just works!

I can't thank the makers of Studio One enough for putting the fun back in to recording and I have zero regrets about switching software. I admit I was a bit worried because I had used Mr. X for so long, but all that worry faded away after about an hour of using Studio One.

Again, thank you Presonus!

Thanks,

Bub
"I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with my tongue than spend one more minute with you."
lhansen
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Joined: 10/01/2011 00:29:31
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Great post Bub, and....I thought I recognized that face..
.
Studio One Producer V2.6.2
Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP
Presonus FaderPort
Asus quad core i7 8 gb ram Win7 x64
Genelec 8030 nearfields. ATH-M50 phones
(2) Focusrite ISA One pres. ART MPA II, Presonus ADL 600.
Variety of mics
Taylor 414ce and Martin DRS2 acoustic, Fender F-style mandolin.






http://.soundcloud.com/dabluroom
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keys88
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Joined: 13/01/2011 17:03:54
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The Sonar forums are in total disarray. Even the fanboys are beginning to jump ship and the ones left are beginning to eat their young.
It's actually pretty sad, but Cakewalk/Roland did it to themselves. They refused to listen to their loyal base and now that base is moving on to other DAW software.

Trying to sell overpriced ProChannel plugins and stuff to your premium customers, the ones who bought the flagship product, is really bad business.
It just tends to piss people off.

Sonar is due for an upgrade and if it turns out to be more bloat, more fluff and piles of features that half work, they are headed for the bit bucket.
I'm an old timer and I see very few other old timers left..over there.
It's sad, but life moves on.

Studio One Professional
Windows 8 x64
i7 950 Gigabyte x58a-UD3R
6Gig Corsair
Qty 4 1TB each Seagate Barracuda
Nvidia GT-240
Roland UM-2G MIDI interface
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Jlien X
Presonic
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Joined: 21/03/2013 13:02:31
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I think it depends on how you look at it. I mean, I see many new users joining the forum this past few months (or more, maybe) and they seem to be very happy with the product (they may just not know various bugs in Sonar yet, though).

Also, Cakewalk don't refuse to listen to the loyal base because they do read the forums and they did a large-scale Sonar survey this year.

But I totally agree with this:
keys88 wrote:Sonar is due for an upgrade and if it turns out to be more bloat, more fluff and piles of features that half work, they are headed for the bit bucket.
PC: ProBook 4710s, Core2 Duo CPU T9600 @2.80GHz, 8GB RAM
OS: Windows 7 Professional (Japanese) 64-bit SP1
Audio/MIDI: Quad-Capture (interface), A-800PRO (keyboard controller)
DAW: Studio One Producer 2.6.2 (64-bit), SONAR X3e (64-bit)
Jon Samuelson
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When I finally see people like Bitflipper, Yoropal and Bapu here, It'll be all but certain that sonar is headed for trouble.
Bub
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Joined: 28/08/2013 22:12:35
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Jlien X wrote:I think it depends on how you look at it. I mean, I see many new users joining the forum this past few months (or more, maybe) and they seem to be very happy with the product (they may just not know various bugs in Sonar yet, though).


I've seen a few people join that like it, and I've seen just as many new folks join that can't get it running. I was in the middle of helping one of the new users via PM when they banned me.

Also, Cakewalk don't refuse to listen to the loyal base because they do read the forums and they did a large-scale Sonar survey this year.


They've said repeatedly that they don't listen to what's said on the forums. They certainly don't moderate it, that's for sure. There's a couple of nasty threads going on there right now about guns, and a few others things that should never be talked about, that violates their own TOS. There is a certain group of members there that can say and do anything they want. There's certainly been far worse things said recently than I've ever said, and yet those members are still there. Only because they didn't speak out against Mr. X. But like I said, I get it. I probably went too far speaking out about my unhappiness and encouraging others to try out some demo's of other products. I kind of felt entitled to speak my mind after being a loyal customer for so long but I was wrong. I can tell you, I've made a hell of a lot more sales for the batter boys by recommending Sonar over the last 20 years than I have for Presonus over the last 3 months.

That survey was only for owners of the 'Producer' edition of X2. If you didn't own the producer edition, you were not sent a link to the survey via email. There was quite a fiasco over their because one of the members posted a link to the survey on the forum without realizing it was for the producer edition only. The fanboi's came unglued because non-producer owners started taking the survey and it ended up in a brawl and if I remember correctly, the batter boys locked the thread to stop the fighting.

Anyhoo ... I do wish them all the best. If Mr. X Producer edition did what it claims it can do, on the systems it claims to support, myself and many many others wouldn't have jumped ship, and I sincerely hope they get their act together before it's too late, and ... I wish them and the forum members (fanboy's too) all the best. We're all here because of our love of music. Sometimes we lose focus of that fact I think.

It's good to see some familiar faces. Honestly, I don't post here because, well, I don't have a reason to. Studio One just works. If I need to know how to perform a function, there's an incredible wealth of information out there on Youtube, and here on the forum, and it just seems to be a great product that everyone loves, not just the fanboys.

Thanks,

Bub
"I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with my tongue than spend one more minute with you."
 
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