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Numerous problems?
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jgoble2
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Joined: 01/08/2011 00:38:45
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Hello everyone. Ok, I am not a mixer and am asking this question for general 24.4.2 knowledge about our church sound. Our pastor has a countryman wireless mic and it seems that a couple problems are happening. His sound has to be re-mixed nearly every week plus we almost have him maxed out on the faders and his volume is still not as loud as it should be. The gains have been increased until feedback occurs. Is this typical? Also, with our instruments and vocals.... how often do you have to re-mix them when you have the same people using the same mics in the same place each week? Starting to wonder if we just have a rare lemon for a board. Just curious.... Thanks
Monolithent
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Where are your speakers in reference to the walls and the pastor? You could be getting reflections back into the mic.

And presets are just starting points in most cases. Everyone plays different at different times. Some feel it a little better than others on some days. I've never had a session that I didn't have to change the mix.
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My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

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jgoble2
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Joined: 01/08/2011 00:38:45
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Thanks for the reply. Maybe I should clarify myself. The problem with the pastor is not feedback, it's that we can't get enough volume from him even though we have him nearly maxed out. Plus he can come in one week and it sounds good, then the next it sounds like his in a hole.
With the band and vocals, I guess when I said they need mixed that I am not referring to the faders but everything else ie gains, compressions, etc. Hope that helps a little. Again, I am not the sound guy but just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks everyone!
Monolithent
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What does the rest of your signal chain look like?

Ins and outs. The mixer is stable being digital. What it takes in it always modifies in the same way if the settings don't change.

How is the gain structure? Where are you setting the input gains? There are a lot of possibilities so lets take it one step at a time.

Tell me about your inputs.

For the Countryman, which version is it? And does he wear it exactly the same and talk exactly the same each time?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/01/2012 12:53:05

http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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MikeRivers
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Joined: 28/07/2010 15:44:52
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Take his wireless mic home with you after the service one week and analyze what the problem really is. It could be that there are controls that are being changed, either by someone who thinks he knows what he's doing (there are a lot of those associated with church sound volunteers) or it could be that he's simply not using the mic consistently.

There are a lot of things to set up with a wireless mic. Many include a compressor that may be set incorrectly and reduces the output as soon as the pastor opens his mouth. When you take the mic system, take the manual, too.

You get feedback when you don't have enough of the signal (the pastor's voice) going into the mic and you keep turning up the gain until the mic is picking up what's coming out of the loudspeakers.
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encoreaudio
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Joined: 03/08/2011 19:03:58
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Also be sure to check the gain settings on the wireless unit as well.
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longhornska
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Joined: 28/03/2011 06:28:57
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This may seem elementary to some but is often overlooked. On the back of your console there are volume knobs on the stereo outs and mono outs. We usually have those knobs turned up all the way. We often use countryman mics(with Shure SLX systems) at our church with a Presonus 2442 with the channel gain structures at about ten o'clock, channel fader at unity, and main fader at -5db. Are those settings similar to yours?
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keithsyler
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Joined: 18/08/2010 19:47:30
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Location: Sherman, TX
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Check the Countryman mic for a BLUE band somewhere on the earpiece. This means that it is intended for use by someone who speaks loudly. Sometimes even the company selling the Countryman doesn't think to ask aout the vocal abilities of the intended user. If you pastor speaks normally or softly and has a blue band on his Countryman earpiece then you might find it difficult to get a good signal without ringing feedback.

Also, Tell us what Brand and model of wireless mic you are working with. There are many different models out there with gain, sensitivity and volume adjustments in several different places.
EXAMPLE: Shure PGX, Shure ULX-P, Sennheiser G3, Audio Technica 4000 etc.

It may also be that Compression was cranked up(or down if you will) without bringing up the makeup gain.
Compression can be thought of as a "window" of sorts. The Ratio and Thresholds close the window from the top, bringing the maximum volume down and the makeup gain closes the window from the bottom bringing the minimum volume up. This is a very simple description of compression, there are a lot of opinions on the proper use of compression.

You could select his channel on the board and take a pic of the Gate and Compressor section of the Fat Channel so we can see these settings are. This might help us troubleshoot for you.





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jgoble2
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Joined: 01/08/2011 00:38:45
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Thanks for all the responses! Let me try to answer as many that I can. I tried to upload pictures of our FatChannel but can't quite figure it out.

The input gains are set at about 1:00
The compressor is set at -16
Our preacher, of course doesn't speak the same all the time and is a low volume speaker
The countryman does not have a blue band
The output volume knobs on the back are set about medium. (does everyone agree that they should be at full volume?)
Forgot to look at the model of countryman but will on next post and will post a pic when I can figure it out

Thanks all
arnoldsq
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Joined: 19/09/2011 21:21:48
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one thing I didnt see above, do you have any stage monitors that point in the general direction of the pastor? if you do when you turn up the gain you are also turning up the monitor mix for his mic. ive had people doing that in our church which caused the same problem you are describing. The problem I am currently having with a countryman mic is they extended the stage out, and now the pastor is directly in line with the speakers causing a slight ring if not feedback.
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jgoble2
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Joined: 01/08/2011 00:38:45
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We do have stage monitors pointing towards the pastor but they do not have him coming through them because we figured out that the more he could hear of himself then the more quiet he would talk. thanks for the response
arnoldsq
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Joined: 19/09/2011 21:21:48
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Location: Rapid City, SD
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funny how that works. I use the same idea but in reverse for my drummer using in ear monitors.

but on that note make sure any mics that are left on while he speaks are muted on the mixer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/01/2012 02:45:19

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