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Jerryd
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Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
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kibo wrote:hi jerry,

im so excited to learn from you guys... learned a lot... eversince you shared things about how to try to Flatten the system, i completely get what you mean... hopefuly soon i could complete my set up and try to play and learn. tnx... of course to mono too!

keep it up guys,

kibo


No problem Kibo. I am always experimenting and trying new things all the time. As far as that interface goes -- it will be a crap shoot. All you can do is try. I have used an MBox2 (Digidesign / Protools) as my interface before and it didn't work with my windows based computer -- the signal strength was overkill & I couldn't get it to calm down.

I did get it to work with my MAC so I used it for a while. Now I use the Presonus Firestudio Mobile because Rational Acoustics recommends it & it is truly a nice unit. Very well built. Fits in my Smaart rig & very portable.

Big Joe Daddy got one and was impressed. Of course it is about $300 bucks so I understand the money thing. All of the purchases never seem to end. Give that other device a shot
Jerryd
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Peary Forrest wrote:Nice tutorials Gadget and Jerryd, So Jerry, how many filters did it take to level that out and did you use the ones in the driverack and another unit?


Hey Peary -- ALL of the parametric filters I used were in the driverack 260. It has 9 parametrics pre-crossover and 4 per ouput post XO. I didn't end up needing all of them. The subs only took two & my tops took 11. Now some of the parametric filters only needed a slight cut or boost like .5 -1dB. Others took more drastic changes to smooth out.

I have a LOW SHELF in place & a HIGH SHELF in place ready to be used for going into a venue. When I take my system inside and measure -- I compare the indoor trace to my finish trace from outside and see what happened. The typical result is that the low end goes thru the roof. So you have to ask yourself, why did that happen? Well, it becomes obvious that a room can drastically change your system & I bet the WALLS are the culprit. Especially a venue that has NO acoustic treatment whatsoever. There is no place for the low frequencies to go so they roll around all over the place (standing waves). Oh -- and there is all kinds of cancellations going on too.

The only thing you can do here is bring the low end back down a few dB at least until the place fills up with people. The high end in a venue gets absorbed really fast because of the strong presence of the low end. So before adjusting the high end -- set your low end first. Then listen again. You may find that you won't have to adjust anything on the high end after all.

The SHELF parametrics I use can adjust the low end or high end in one swoop. A SHELF is exactly what it says. Imagine a book shelf that has one end of it lagging down. All you have to do is place your hand on one end and raise it BUT the whole thing levels out. Depending on where you place the filter -- you can affect and very wide range of frequencies. You can TILT the spectrum if you desire.

I usually run the Smaart program in a venue if I haven't been to it before (If I am allowed to) BUT it is easy to think you have to make changes to TUNE the system to the room BUT don't go for the EQ so fast. The goal is to NOTE what the room did to your system and keep in mind when the place fills and you have all those bodies standing in front of the system absorbing -- it probably won't be an issue after all.

If the place is empty I would first NOT run the system very loud and possibly tame the low end down with the LOW Shelf. As it fills -- gradually increase back to where you had it.

This of course is ALL done by ear to taste but the analyzer helped you identify where to make the adjustment.

As the old saying goes: "There are a lot of ways to skin a cat" OR Gadget's favorite: "One man's nirvana is another man's sonic hell"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 22/10/2010 16:55:59

Jerryd
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hue wrote:
Jerryd wrote:Let me ask you a very basic question: IF a graphic EQ is set FLAT -- does that mean your system is FLAT?


Of course not but if you can't hear that there is something blatantly wrong, there is something wrong with your ears. I understand the use of tools but the bottom line is, the tool is only as good as the person using it. If you can't hear that a room is sucking mids there is something wrong with your ears. Sure you're going to compensate for it but how is an RTA going to change that? Yes, it may affect how much you compensate but you will still compensate.

After all some time we like the sound of imbalance. That's why people go gaga over vintage gear. Do people like the sound of saturated tape because it is harmonically flat? Hell no! Do people like Neumanns because they accurately represent what they "hear". Of course not.

Yes, it's great to know that your monitors are doing what they are supposed to do. That's great. If you have the tools to ensure that they are flat, that's awesome. I'm not saying tools are bad. I just think that good sounding gear has been around a lot longer than the tools to "perfect" their sound.

I imagine the only real way to calibrate your monitoring system would be to use an anechoic chamber, several measurement microphones and a stepped graphic equalizer which you would probably have to replace or recalibrate every year or every other year. What a joy that would be. Not all of us can afford that luxury.


Hue -- if you ever get a chance somewhere down the road to try some of these things out -- give it a shot. You can always ditch it if you don't like it. I have done plenty of tunings that I didn't like BUT it was because I messed up somewhere along the way (didn't check polarity or shut EQ's & limiters off first....etc)

Systune has a lifetime demo that would work. You can't store your data though & smaart has a demo that lasts 30 days. It is more than enough time to experiment with it. I would be more than happy to help you if you get stuck on how to work the program. It is tricky and YES only as good as the operator. My feeling is that you will really like it.

You can see in real time for example how turning an poweramp knob up or down raises or lowers your live trace AND how it shifts your crossover point and then destroying your phase alignment. You can learn more in one day with the visuals than you can learn in years of tweaking by ear. Just an idea though.
kibo
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Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
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@jerry,

i think i will just wait for second hand presonus audiobox. i wont have enought time to really play with it. im just trying to get to know my imac. im not so techy but im trying. if i buy it, maybe it will take a couple of months before i weill know it doesnt work. hehehe... so i will just go with the stuff that i know ill really work.

i was reading thru iphone Studio6 apps and i saw that they are with rational acoustics in having that FFT and all those audio testing stuff. could they also achieve the same readings as smaart? im i write that there is dual FFT and just FFT?

sorry for these questions...

thanks,

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
Jerryd
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
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Hey Kibo -- The interface thing is tricky. I would wait as well so you know the interface you get will be the right one. As far as FFT & DUAL FFT -- I would hope they mean the same thing. If Rational Acoustics has the iphone app thing going on then it should be true Dual FFT. If it isn't about Dual FFT -- then they won't have much to do with it. From their perspective -- it is all about Dual FFT. I am not sure how it works though and I haven't bothered to look yet. I am also assuming that Smaart would be installed onto the phone as well.

I can't keep up with all the gadgets now days & once you buy one thing something else comes out so I usually sit back and wait for awhile.

Kibo -- refresh my memory ........ Do you have a system controller? A Driverack? And a measurement mic?

If so -- let's go ahead and do the DBX method on your system. It is worth a shot & totally worked for me (at the time) and in the process you will learn (from the data) a lot about your system.

Before I type all this up let me know if you have the above equipment.

Jerry
kibo
Presonic
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Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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hi jerry,

i dont have have a driverack 260 yet. i was saving for it and my pc broke so i had to buy an imac... hopefully i will have all i need by the start of next year.

i will definitely ask for your help and mono too...

i was just curious with the iphone app because its very handy... if it works well too then i will go for it. i see that they have a reference mic that can be attached to the iphone. im not sure... but it says fft.

thanks a lot,

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
kibo
Presonic
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Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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hi guys,

what do you think about Tascam US122L for using as interface for systune? sorry im not quite finished with this...

its just that im not really in a hurry coz i have so much to do and learn... its overwhelming but i saw one for $65CAN. same price as the line 6 UX1...

tell me what you think...

thanks,

kibo

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 13/11/2010 22:45:59

Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
Monolithent
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Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
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Should do very well. I nearly bought one of them instead of my AudioBox but it didn't have a full DAW with it so I opted for the Presonus toys.
http://support.presonus.com

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My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

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kibo
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Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
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ok thanks a lot...

let you know...

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
 
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