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Do the channel Trims/Gain recall on Scene Recall?
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scottmckenna
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Joined: 14/06/2011 00:28:47
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After a weird incident last night at a gig, I'm a bit confused as to whether this was random, or this is how it always has worked. When you save a scene, and have it save and recall EVERY part (faders, fat channel, aux sends, etc), I was under the impression that the only thing that is not possible to save is the Trim/Gain at the top of the board. Am I right? Meaning if I had it to set to let's just 12 oclock, and saved a preset with it there, and then I messed with it for another show, and it was at 3 oclock, when I go back and recall that scene, it's going to recall with it the new 3 oclock trim since that's where it's at correct? Because of this, I usually save a scene, and take a picture of the whole top row of knobs so I remember where things are.

The other day however, it acted differently, and the way I would love it to act, but not that I've ever seen. When I recalled a scene, it had the aux level set at some previous setting, because when I went to turn down the physical knob for master of aux 1, the volume made a huge jump and attached to the now moving knob.

I'm now entirely confused. When I recall a scene, is it recalling the top row of knobs as well even though they are the only real analog style knows on the board?
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Scott McKenna
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wally
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Scott,
When you recall a Scene, with Total Recall, you do recall the aux output levels, but not the channel input gains. I have my pot recalls set to off to avoid the problem you described. This problem exists with the monitoring pots, FX pots, tape in... I'm hoping for a firmware upgrade that shows all pot positions on the LCD so you can "Locate" them on a Scene Recall just like the faders.
Wally
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scottmckenna
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wally wrote:Scott,
When you recall a Scene, with Total Recall, you do recall the aux output levels, but not the channel input gains. I have my pot recalls set to off to avoid the problem you described. This problem exists with the monitoring pots, FX pots, tape in... I'm hoping for a firmware upgrade that shows all pot positions on the LCD so you can "Locate" them on a Scene Recall just like the faders.
Wally


Yes this would be a HUGE help. Since everything is based off of that when it comes to volume and aux sends etc, its almost pointless without it.
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Scott McKenna
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Monolithent
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It would be nice but I don't think it can be done. Those are not digital. The system doesn't know their position.

What I've done is kept a notebook of them. That way I can reference back when I need to. It's a stone age method in space age times but it works.
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scottmckenna
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Monolithent wrote:It would be nice but I don't think it can be done. Those are not digital. The system doesn't know their position.

What I've done is kept a notebook of them. That way I can reference back when I need to. It's a stone age method in space age times but it works.


Yes, that's what I've done with a picture from my phone, but it's just not convenient. It's one of the very very very few reasons why I've contemplated getting a different board. When you're running multiple bands in a night, and want to recall scenes, it's just not convenient and quick to have to look at a picture of the trims, adjust them, then fader locate the board, then you're up and running. It's an awesome feature being able to fader locate without motorized faders, but in the live environment, sometimes it's near impossible to use.
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Scott McKenna
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MikeRivers
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scottmckenna wrote:It's one of the very very very few reasons why I've contemplated getting a different board. When you're running multiple bands in a night, and want to recall scenes, it's just not convenient and quick to have to look at a picture of the trims, adjust them, then fader locate the board, then you're up and running.


How fast do those bands get on stage? Or are you up there on the stage setting mics and placing monitors instead of tending to the board? When doing shows with bands turning over several times in a date, you can alleviate some of those gain problems by standardizing the setup as much as you can - same mic setup for drums, same mic or DI for electric bass, same lead vocal, etc. You probably won't have to change the gains too much if you do that and your bands aren't too offbeat.

I don't know what there is out there that has digitally controlled mic preamp gain. Are you aware of anything? TI has a chip, the PGA2500, I believe, that's a mic preamp with gain controlled from a serial data stream. It was used in the Mackie X-Bus console (you can thank PreSonus CTO Tudor for that design) but I don't know how common it is in other digital consoles.

Initially, because of the steps I observed in the StudioLive mic preamp gain when I turned the knob as slowly as I could, I thought that they might have been using a chip with a digital gain control, but now that I've been playing around with a 25.4.2, I think it's just that they're using the same crummy pot for gain trim that everybody else uses in their mixer. It definitely has more granularity than I'd expect from a decent pot (you probably wouldn't want a volume control like that on your electric guitar) but given that it's usually a set-once-and-forget control and it's not that critical if you use it right, it's not really a big problem.

When I'm working a festival, I try to encourage the players to noodle a bit as soon as their mics get plugged in. When I see some activity on the channel, I solo it, make sure it's something useful, then set the gain based on what's going in and my experience with how much louder it's going to get. And if I have to spend time on the stage with band setup, I tell them that I'll need another minute after I get back to the console before the audience can hear them (and I tell the MC to make up some folklore until I give him the GO sign. I have so many different things throughout the day that having presets wouldn't do me any good at all. The only time I've ever used them was when there was a rehearsal in the afternoon with all the bands doing pretty much what they were going to do on the evening show. That was helpful but so far it's been a once in a lifetime experience. And I still had to make notes for the gain settings.

As far as the scene recall goes, as I've mentioned in another thread, I don't think there's going to be a system that will make everybody happy. Motor-driven faders would help, but the fact that the StudioLive doesn't have them is one of the things that makes the mixer affordable by so many people.
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TimmyP1955
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Put board tape by the pots that don't save/recall. Mark the position for each band with a different color Sharpie. Quick and easy.
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scottmckenna
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TimmyP1955 wrote:Put board tape by the pots that don't save/recall. Mark the position for each band with a different color Sharpie. Quick and easy.


I know there are WAYS to do things, but that's not convenient, or what I'm looking for. I want 100% digital recall, that's all. I'm not complaining about the board, just making a point of what I'd really like to see.
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Scott McKenna
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__dRuM__
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Hi my dear presonus brothers first i would like to say that recalling the gain settings is impossible but i have been using24.4.2 for several times like you i am also working with different bands so there are two methods that i want to share
First one is set your gain settings to U level is written on your foh tan if you need any gain use the compressor gain settings you can see this parameter on your vsl or UC but you should now the using the comprresor well if you save your settings when you recall the scenes you will get the fat channel settings so you will get the also comprresor settings ,so you will get the gain settings.
Second one is again set the gain levels what you want than turn on all of your firewire inputs aftercthese process open logic or studio one or cubase or etc set your all of things what you need and save them to your pc i generally use the second method using logic pro9 with waves plugins H-eq for vocals masserati for drums Cla for bass guitar H delay for delay space designer for reverbs masserati for guitars it works great dont forget you may have latency problems when your first using to decrease to about 3-4 ms ( lower then 5 ms latencies wont be heared by any people ears) change your buffer size these are my methods thank you for reading nest regards berk.
 
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