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How Much Does Your Mixer Really Cost?
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Jan-Arend Blok
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Joined: 11/02/2011 22:41:25
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I have a MacBook Pro for nearly five years now, doing all the things that need to be done. I use it for work (windows), at home doing graphics and other drawing, and in music with my two bands. Recording, mixing, running VSL with the iPad, Capture and StudioOne. Everything flawless. This machine has been my working horse since I bought it and will be for at least a couple of years. I put in a bigger hard drive and the maximum of 3 gb of ram. And running every day of the week. These machines are priceless. I was doing graphics on Macs almost 20 years ago when everyone else in the world was still learning DOS codes....... Hahaha!!!!
SL24.4.2, Audiobox 22 VSL, Bluetube DP, 4 Eris E8 Studiomonitors, Faderport, Macbook Pro 2012, 2,3 Ghz i7, 8Gb, 750 Gb 7200rpm , iPad mini, iMac 2009 (2,4 Ghz), Airport Express, TP Link dual band router, StudioOne Pro V2.6, Capture, HP4, HK Audio PR115 subs + tops, Beyer N300, Blue Encore 300 and Encore 200 mics, Shure SM57, Jangus Music Wi IEM + wireless MM headworrn mics, Shure PG drummics, Bartlett floormics.
knerr
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Joined: 16/11/2010 20:21:29
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Yeah, I don't have the luxury of a dedicated music computer, but haven't really felt it necessary either. In general, macs really are stable enough to handle it. If one is really concerned about it, a simple solution is just have a clean install on another partition with just your music software. Simpler yet, setup a user account with only the essential extensions and background programs running. This wouldn't be quite as drastic, but might still give you peace of mind.
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MikeRivers
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Joined: 28/07/2010 15:44:52
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OK, well will someone please tell me where I can get a Macbook Pro for free so I don't have to include it in the cost of my recording system. I'm sure my accountant would like to know about that.
Visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com for some useful audio info
"It's much easier to look for a magic solution than it is to adapt to reality." - Allan Sloan
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Jan-Arend Blok
Presonic
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Joined: 11/02/2011 22:41:25
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You cannot get a StudioLive for free also. Why does everyone want a dedicated mixer with lots of possibilities and then hook up the cheapest computer available. And then also expecting that you get a flawless recording system. Nope, if you want a good recording system, everything in the chain will be important, including the used computers. Think about the time spent to build a flawless pc based recording system. And when you update your operating system you can start all over again. I just plug and play....... I think your accountant would be glad buying a computer you can still sell after five years for quite some money....
SL24.4.2, Audiobox 22 VSL, Bluetube DP, 4 Eris E8 Studiomonitors, Faderport, Macbook Pro 2012, 2,3 Ghz i7, 8Gb, 750 Gb 7200rpm , iPad mini, iMac 2009 (2,4 Ghz), Airport Express, TP Link dual band router, StudioOne Pro V2.6, Capture, HP4, HK Audio PR115 subs + tops, Beyer N300, Blue Encore 300 and Encore 200 mics, Shure SM57, Jangus Music Wi IEM + wireless MM headworrn mics, Shure PG drummics, Bartlett floormics.
rodneyorpheus
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Joined: 12/05/2010 11:50:18
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Ok, let's talk about the real world here for a change...

I have a PC Aaudio Labs Win64 laptop. It works perfectly for digital audio out of the box. It runs VSL, Capture, Studio One every day without an issue. It's also my only computer while I am on the road. It does all my work emails. It does my web browsing and my posting to this forum. I play some pretty intense hardcore games on it in the evening in my hotel room. I edit pics on it, I edit video on it. It pretty much does everything except make me a cup of tea in the morning.

So can we please put this ridiculous "you need a dedicated Mac to do digital audio" nonsense to bed, it's so 20th century.
Jan-Arend Blok
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rodneyorpheus wrote:Ok, let's talk about the real world here for a change...

I have a PC Aaudio Labs Win64 laptop. It works perfectly for digital audio out of the box. It runs VSL, Capture, Studio One every day without an issue. It's also my only computer while I am on the road. It does all my work emails. It does my web browsing and my posting to this forum. I play some pretty intense hardcore games on it in the evening in my hotel room. I edit pics on it, I edit video on it. It pretty much does everything except make me a cup of tea in the morning.

So can we please put this ridiculous "you need a dedicated Mac to do digital audio" nonsense to bed, it's so 20th century.



The real world tells me it's full of pc users on this forum that cannot get their equipment working with Presonus gear. Is it the fault of Presonus or ? Of course there are plenty of non Mac users that don't have problems. But making the right choice of a windows based computer is becoming more and more difficult. Integration of hard- and software is still the stongest point for Macs. But if you are happy with your gear, that's fine with me. It's just no good for people who have so much trouble getting things working. I just wish they could just enjoy working with their equipment like I do.
PhilG
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Joined: 29/07/2010 01:46:55
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I dont think it is a presonus issue at all. If people cannot connect ipads to a wireless network because of security / firewalls blocking communication I cannot see how that has anything to do with presonus personally.

Same with bad firewire chips - if people did research they would be able to tell pretty quickly if the system is going to work or not

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MikeRivers
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Jan-Arend Blok wrote:
rodneyorpheus wrote:
The real world tells me it's full of pc users on this forum that cannot get their equipment working with Presonus gear. Is it the fault of Presonus or ?


No, it's not Presonus' fault that not every PC is built alike. They make a good effort to tell you what Firewire chips have been tested and are known to work with the StudioLive, but for most users, this is either an afterthought or a "But my computer doesn't have one of those chips" issue. And unless they're told that there are things that they can do to make their computers deal with audio more efficiently, they don't know about tweaks.

This isn't common knowledge, and there doesn't seem to be much need for the equivalent knowledge with a Mac, at least as far as getting the StudioLive working. But I can tell you that there's Mackie audio hardware that's pretty easy to get working under Windows, and that's having problems with Apple Core Audio.

The real solution is for people to buy a system from a system integrator. But we've been sold on the idea that "all you need is a computer" and you can have a recording studio, so practically nobody goes that route. I imagine that if you were to buy a StudioLive and a Windows computer together from a full service dealer like Sweetwater, they'd make sure it all worked together before the shipped it out, if you asked them to do that. But we have people buying mixers from dealers who sell cheap on eBay, and using the computer that they've been using for a year or three, and at that point, it's a crapshoot.
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zemlin
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Joined: 02/08/2010 16:37:11
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I sold a pair of Audiofire12s, a Presonus ACP88, an Allen and Heath 16:2DX, 3 graphics EQs, 3 small racks, and a butt-load of patch cables and replaced it all with the SL1642. I have far more flexibility, ease of setup, faster setup and teardown, the list goes on and on.

And about that macbook pro - I'm using the same little VAIO laptop I was using with my other setup. I don't have an iPad - although it would be a nifty trick ...

Quit your whining.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/03/2011 01:18:04

rodneyorpheus
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If you want a system that absolutely positively will work, then the solution doesn't have to be difficult or expensive. You just go to a dedicated
audio computer company whose job it is to make sure it Just Works, like PC Audio Labs or Xi Machines. Sure it will cost you more than a refurbished Dell, but you will get certified hardware and great tech support from dedicated audio specialists who aren't just sitting in India reading off a script. Best money I ever spent. And to get back on topic, added to the price of an SL desk, still a hell of a lot cheaper (and more portable!) than any equivalent recording system.
MikeRivers
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Jan-Arend Blok wrote:You cannot get a StudioLive for free also. Why does everyone want a dedicated mixer with lots of possibilities and then hook up the cheapest computer available. And then also expecting that you get a flawless recording system. Nope, if you want a good recording system, everything in the chain will be important, including the used computers.


That's exactly my point. And there's the diff0cult-to-price cost of time spent getting things to work (and making sure they work reliably) and the frustration in not being able to trust the system. At this time, the MacBook Pro seems to be a bit of a shortcut for those who don't have a lot of computer expertise and don't want to become a computer expert. One can argue that it's important to have some knowledge of the technology involved in using a technically complex system, but while, at least for the first 25 years or so of commercially available mixer and tape recorders, a lot of them got modified to improve performance or add new functionality, they all worked right out of the box. This is not always the case with a StudioLive coupled with a "computer of opportunity."
Visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com for some useful audio info
"It's much easier to look for a magic solution than it is to adapt to reality." - Allan Sloan
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Jan-Arend Blok
Presonic
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Joined: 11/02/2011 22:41:25
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I can't agree more Mike. I'm not a technician, just a guy who loves to make music. But when I play somewhere I want a decent sound and I want to record everything. For me, my setup works fine. Other people make different choices for different reasons. It gets only better if you have more choices. No problem with that.
SL24.4.2, Audiobox 22 VSL, Bluetube DP, 4 Eris E8 Studiomonitors, Faderport, Macbook Pro 2012, 2,3 Ghz i7, 8Gb, 750 Gb 7200rpm , iPad mini, iMac 2009 (2,4 Ghz), Airport Express, TP Link dual band router, StudioOne Pro V2.6, Capture, HP4, HK Audio PR115 subs + tops, Beyer N300, Blue Encore 300 and Encore 200 mics, Shure SM57, Jangus Music Wi IEM + wireless MM headworrn mics, Shure PG drummics, Bartlett floormics.
wesley
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This is not always the case with a StudioLive coupled with a "computer of opportunity."


This is not always the case with any computer peripheral and any computer. I bought a wireless router for my home two years ago. I couldn't get it to configure with the DSL modem ATT provided us. I called ATT three times, the wireless router manufacturer once, and still no joy. Luckily, PreSonus's IT guy is also one of my husband's oldest friends, so he came over and three hours, two phone calls to ATT, two plates of bar-b-que, and several beers later, I had a wireless network in my house. I consider myself fairly technically savvy, and I know my friend is so, that's two technically savvy people spending collectively about 15 hours to get a single wireless router to communicate with a DSL modem. I spent a week trying to get my laptop to print to the network color printer at work before I finally gave up and begged for a cheapo black and white printer of my own. I could go on here.

And, tape machines weren't easier, between calibrating them, cleaning the heads, keeping the tension just right and tape splicing. Neither were SSL's are those bleeping bernoulli drives...and you certainly couldn't buy studio for your home with the same capability as a professional studio for the cost of renting said professional studio for 2 days back in those "good old analog days"
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MikeRivers
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wesley wrote:
This is not always the case with a StudioLive coupled with a "computer of opportunity."


This is not always the case with any computer peripheral and any computer.

Oh, for sure, but as you might recall, this is the StudioLive forum. But one thing that I've found is that audio hardware is more often fussier about the computer to which it's connected than, say, a printer. The reason is that the people who make computers and operating systems expect printers to be connected, so they test them thoroughly. USB2 and Firewire audio devices aren't supported by Microsoft drivers (as they are with the Apple Core Audio system). Manufacturers need to supply their own drivers, and they aren't always privy to changes in the operating system that Microsoft makes. Since practically all Firewire host chips work with the Microsoft OHCI driver, that's half the job done right, but not all of those chips work well when passing audio. The Firewire chip makers test their parts with disk drives. And remember when it used to be that if you wanted to stream audio successfully to an external Firewire drive, it needed an Oxford 911 chipset?

I bought a wireless router for my home two years ago. I couldn't get it to configure with the DSL modem ATT provided us. I called ATT three times, the wireless router manufacturer once, and still no joy. Luckily, PreSonus's IT guy is also one of my husband's oldest friends, so he came over and three hours, two phone calls to ATT, two plates of bar-b-que, and several beers later, I had a wireless network in my house.

Well, I've helped people get their audio systems up and running, often for similar payment. The point is that not all of this stuff is as simple as the sellers would like us to believe. Sometimes you have to buy different hardware, sometimes you have to buy or bribe some human help, sometimes you can just stumble through it yourself. And sometimes the planets are just lined up right and it works straight off. The biggest problem I had with the StudioLive here was finding the headphone jack. But I could just as well have had a Ricoh Firewire chip in my computer.


And, tape machines weren't easier, between calibrating them, cleaning the heads, keeping the tension just right and tape splicing. Neither were SSL's are those bleeping bernoulli drives...and you certainly couldn't buy studio for your home with the same capability as a professional studio for the cost of renting said professional studio for 2 days back in those "good old analog days"


Sure, as technology evolves, the tools and skills you need in order to install, operate and troubleshoot it changes. Just about every tape recorder I've owned came with a schematic and alignment instructions, and I could fix it with a voltmeter, oscilloscope, oscillator, and some hand tools. I didn't find a schematic in the box when I unpacked the StudioLive. Heck, I didn't even find a block diagram - I had to download it from the web site. And even if I had the software documentation, I'd probably need a logic analyzer in order to find a trouble, and a microscope to repair it.
Visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com for some useful audio info
"It's much easier to look for a magic solution than it is to adapt to reality." - Allan Sloan
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spongebob
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Joined: 22/01/2011 19:26:14
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MikeRivers wrote:
I didn't find a schematic in the box when I unpacked the StudioLive.



Mike ... do you now own a StudioLive ?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 23/03/2011 18:02:20

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