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S1 vs Sonar X1 just a quick experience.
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ba-midi
Presonic
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Joined: 13/01/2011 19:35:36
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yorolpal wrote:"Dane" to the music of life?? Is that a "Miller's Crossing" reference?


HAHA, thanks for catchin' that, Ol Pal

/me fix now

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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ba-midi
Presonic
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Joined: 13/01/2011 19:35:36
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bitflipper wrote:Billy, you're a big MIDI guy. Aren't you finding the MIDI in S1 a bit confining?


BTW, Dave, you're a big audio guy -- I suspect you have noticed how 'clean' the audio sounds in Studio One?

Scott Lee and I have become buddies lately (due to the X1 problems) and we've both been so impressed with the sound output of S1.

While I would never get into a big debate about it, it just seems that I have to do a lot LESS processing (EQ in particular) to get a good sound out of S1.

Now it maybe just be due to their excellent Pro EQ (comes with S1 pro) -- which I find similar in sound to Fab Filter's Pro-Q (that you already know I like as do you).

But the overall 'result' of anything I've been trying in Studio One is just cleaner, less muddy.

I don't have scientific proof, yet -- but I'm sure I'm not imagining this.

I'm curious if you've had any feelings about this area yet?

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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mavafa
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Joined: 25/01/2011 05:11:07
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Sorry to butt in but I've found Studio One to sound more pristine and the Pro EQ just brilliant compared to my current Sonar 7.

I am a huge Reason user so naturally I bought Record and you know what? It also sounds better and cleaner than Sonar.

Reading reports like this make me feel that it is all really happening and that I am not imagining anything.

As far as the midi in Studio One I nearly always use Reason so its not a real issue to me at least.
Macbook Pro 2.7ghz 16gig Ram OSX 10.9 Apoggee Duet 2 Studio One Pro, Reason 7, Recycle.
SkylineUK
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Joined: 14/01/2011 17:18:03
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It really feels like home from home here with all you Sonar guys!
Yes, if Studio One improves the MIDI workflow I'll be a full convert, but in the meantime I'll use both, Studio One where I know it's an all-audio project.



Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM 1TB RAID storage.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.
Presonus Studio One 2 Professional 2.6.1
Sonar X3d
Audio interface: RME HDSPe AIO
MIDI interface: M-Audio Midisport 4x4 Anniversary
1 lava lamp
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rodneyorpheus
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Joined: 12/05/2010 11:50:18
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Pretty much everyone who uses Studio One will tell you it just sounds better than anything else out there, especially if you run the audio engine in Double Precision mode. That's one of the reasons we've been winning so many awards from high-end production magazines I think. So no, not just your imagination

Rodney
Jason Gray
Presonic
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Joined: 22/09/2010 11:10:55
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mavafa wrote:Sorry to butt in but I've found Studio One to sound more pristine and the Pro EQ just brilliant compared to my current Sonar 7.

I am a huge Reason user so naturally I bought Record and you know what? It also sounds better and cleaner than Sonar.

Reading reports like this make me feel that it is all really happening and that I am not imagining anything.

As far as the midi in Studio One I nearly always use Reason so its not a real issue to me at least.


But not to forget all Instruments in the reason rack will show up in S1 rewire, but you can do almost everything from S1, even full automation in S1 which is cool, if you aint checked that out i would advise you give it a try, just bypass the Reason mixer/s' instruments too Reason out rack and then link to S1 rewire, i checked this out in the past and it was really quite simple to Achieve.
Just imagine being able to have this view in s1, for multiple lanes at the same time, better than the multi lane midi editor,which is more for orchestral arrangent, and bare in mind you cant beat this for drum sequencing also, its a must have view.
Cubase edit in place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvTO6cvSAQ
sonar inline piano roll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AlQFQjMRR0
and a few others Daws also have this editing feature.
dezacrator
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Joined: 14/01/2011 04:23:13
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Hi all,

I too am not looking for a daw debate just sharing my experiences with both software.

Some of you know I was a Pro Audio/Sonar user for 16 years. I feel comfortable saying that I know the software and audio engine quite well.

After many years of using Sonar, I always dreaded the engineering portion. While I found Sonar excellent in fast song production, I also found myself over engineering - trying to fix the track to match my A>B mix. While there is no debate on audio data being just 0's and 1's, something happens in the way Sonar mix engine works. I always would get a muddy sound in the 30 - 400hz range that would step over the whole mix. I also noticed the center was very hot (even with a -3 pan law setting) so as us audio engineers do, we use tools to correct what we hear.

So I've been converting my album due on this year from Sonar X1 to Studio One. As a electronic music artist in the industry I use allot of hardware/software vstis. Recreating the songs (while taking time to do so) by coping the midi clips, saving out all the presets - basically re building the song as a duplicate copy in Studio One was worth the time and effort for me.

After the first song conversion I was astonished by the difference. The Studio One version already sounded a lot better even without 0 engineering - same song, same effects, same presets especially being a duplicate song with 0 audio bounces.

Im now 9 songs into the conversion and not only do I hear less of the muddy frequencies I would normally spend a great deal of time adjusting, but the "positioning" was quite noticeable (again even with matching pan laws). I'm doing allot less work and getting an amazing sound in Studio One. Its been a breath of fresh air.

Best Regards,
Scott Lee (ASCAP)
SFX - Audio Designs
Song Composer / Engineer / Audio Director
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dezacrator?feature=mhee
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ba-midi
Presonic
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SkylineUK wrote:It really feels like home from home here with all you Sonar guys!
Yes, if Studio One improves the MIDI workflow I'll be a full convert, but in the meantime I'll use both, Studio One where I know it's an all-audio project.





I'm still curious to hear other's views/details on what they think is weak in MIDI in Studio One.

I suspect much of it has to do with "external synths/devices" -- but I can't get a good beat on what people actually mean yet.

Anyone want to offer up some details?

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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synthphonix
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Joined: 04/10/2010 08:45:34
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What keeps Sonar on my machine is the ability to view/edit/write more than one MIDI track in the editor window.

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/15/7372.page#47649
2.5 GB DropBox Account.
This referral link will get us both an additional 500MB of DropBox space if you use it to sign up.
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ba-midi
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synthphonix wrote:What keeps Sonar on my machine is the ability to view/edit/write more than one MIDI track in the editor window.

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/15/7372.page#47649


Ah, finally something I can relate to Yeah, that would be nice.

Not a showstopper for me, but definitely useful.

Thanks for the reply

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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derFunkenstein
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Joined: 30/01/2011 21:51:03
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I'm still a big Sonar fan (and recongize alot of avatars and names from the Sonar forum) even after upgrading to X1. I doubt S1 (which I got with my Audiobox USB) is going to become my go-to DAW simply because I'm not going to pay another $200 just to get VST support. Right now I can't use any of the softsynths I already own with it; even the "lite" version of some of the others allow me that courtesy (such as Logic Express and Sonar LE). I've only had it since Saturday and while I like what I see, I think Presonus is going to have to bring VST support to Artist if they want to convert people from Cakewalk (or Logic or PT or Cubendo or any other DAW).

And give me a regular staff notation editor for MIDI. In terms of "weakness" that's my biggest MIDI-related gripe.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 31/01/2011 19:19:10

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SkylineUK
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ba-midi wrote:
SkylineUK wrote:It really feels like home from home here with all you Sonar guys!
Yes, if Studio One improves the MIDI workflow I'll be a full convert, but in the meantime I'll use both, Studio One where I know it's an all-audio project.





I'm still curious to hear other's views/details on what they think is weak in MIDI in Studio One.

I suspect much of it has to do with "external synths/devices" -- but I can't get a good beat on what people actually mean yet.

Anyone want to offer up some details?



For me, as a big MIDI user, it's mainly the lack of the equivalent of Sonar's Master.INS file, or instrument definitions. I.e. in a Sonar MIDI track I can see and browse the Bank and Patch names for all my Banks, Cards and Patches in my Roland Fantom X6 (and also my DR880 drum machine). This is vital so as to be able to quickly search for, audition and settle on different patches, even as the track plays if I want.

John

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 31/01/2011 19:22:15

Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM 1TB RAID storage.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.
Presonus Studio One 2 Professional 2.6.1
Sonar X3d
Audio interface: RME HDSPe AIO
MIDI interface: M-Audio Midisport 4x4 Anniversary
1 lava lamp
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ba-midi
Presonic
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Joined: 13/01/2011 19:35:36
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SkylineUK wrote:
ba-midi wrote:
SkylineUK wrote:It really feels like home from home here with all you Sonar guys!
Yes, if Studio One improves the MIDI workflow I'll be a full convert, but in the meantime I'll use both, Studio One where I know it's an all-audio project.





I'm still curious to hear other's views/details on what they think is weak in MIDI in Studio One.

I suspect much of it has to do with "external synths/devices" -- but I can't get a good beat on what people actually mean yet.

Anyone want to offer up some details?



For me, as a big MIDI user, it's mainly the lack of the equivalent of Sonar's Master.INS file, or instrument definitions. I.e. in a Sonar MIDI track I can see and browse the Bank and Patch names for all my Banks, Cards and Patches in my Roland Fantom X6 (and also my DR880 drum machine). This is vital so as to be able to quickly search for, audition and settle on different patches, even as the track plays if I want.

John


John,

This somewhat confirms one of my suspicions that a lot of the MIDI weakness in S1 has to do with, as I thought, "external" devices.

In the 7 years I've been using Sonar I never had to use the Master INS file or any INS file. That doesn't mean it's not useful there, but I just had no reason to rely on that.

I'm curious to see if there's more "interal" MIDI weakness in S1 (other than not being able to have multiple ciips in the Edit view).

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

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GjS
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Joined: 27/12/2010 07:24:23
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synthphonix wrote:What keeps Sonar on my machine is the ability to view/edit/write more than one MIDI track in the editor window.

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/15/7372.page#47649


Excellent example (ScreenShot)

This is one of the workflow features I would like to see added to S1.

Being able to view multiple midi-parts (chn - events) in the Midi Editor is essential when working on orchestral scores (string ensemble) for example. Being able to see at a glance the harmony structure how all parts create the whole is just one example of why IMO improved 'Multi-Midi Workflow' is absolutely essential.

Anyway, it's good to see familiar names from the Cakewalk forums...

Hello; Billy, Dave, Don, Scott, and Ol' Pal.

Free round of Dom Perignon drinks for everyone, although Dave will have a straight-up chilled mango juice shaken not stirred

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ba-midi
Presonic
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GjS wrote:
synthphonix wrote:What keeps Sonar on my machine is the ability to view/edit/write more than one MIDI track in the editor window.

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/15/7372.page#47649


Excellent example (ScreenShot)

This is one of the workflow features I would like to see added to S1.

Being able to view multiple midi-parts (chn - events) in the Midi Editor is essential when working on orchestral scores (string ensemble) for example. Being able to see at a glance the harmony structure how all parts create the whole is just one example of why IMO improved 'Multi-Midi Workflow' is absolutely essential.

Anyway, it's good to see familiar names from the Cakewalk forums...

Hello; Billy, Dave, Don, Scott, and Ol' Pal.

Free round of Dom Perignon drinks for everyone, although Dave will have a straight-up chilled mango juice shaken not stirred



Thanks for the welcome

I don't mind Vodka Cran

You can call me Billy

Some of my music (click to listen)
Dance to the music of life.
(www.ba-midi.com/music)

XPProSP3, 32bit, Q6600 Quad Core,4G RAM, Motu Ultralite MKiii, Multiple SATA drives. All subject to change at any time

[WWW]
 
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