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the open air hiss
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jBranam
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Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
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well don't go by the sound on the video... that is not what i have... i have tracks dumped from a tascam dp-8 i think it is. the guitar was recorded over built in mics on it. vocals done on the telefunken vocal mic.

the only way i know to explain the hiss is... the mic record level was too far up and he played light. to remedy that i always turn mic down and play harder i tend to wonder if that tascam has like a auto gain on the in board mics. some of them things tend to 'extend their ear' or run sensitivity up straining to record something... and i HATE that.
Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
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i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
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RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
matthewgorman
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Joined: 24/02/2011 21:30:31
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Didnt see your post up there. I think you are on the right track. Regardless of him redoing the guitar, its stll good to know how to deal with those types of things.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
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S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

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jBranam
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Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
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cool... so at least i was kinda thinking the right way. i was a molding tech in plastic injection and there are many ways to fix the same problem. if you can't beat em join em type thing.
Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
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i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
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RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
matthewgorman
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jBranam wrote:cool... so at least i was kinda thinking the right way. i was a molding tech in plastic injection and there are many ways to fix the same problem. if you can't beat em join em type thing.


Funny, a friend of mine sells the injection molding equipment.

I've seen projects go from "Its only a demo" to serious when the artist hears the quality possible. Unfortunately I was in a band with one up until recently, and you wind up spending way more time than needed mixing.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
Bbd
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I have used Melodyne at tmes and manually removed the noise between notes. I also could fade the last notes going into the space with Melodyne.

For your vocal issues, you can automate notch filters on the offending parts and/or select the micro range of the specific problem and bring down the volume.
Bbd

Studio One 2.6 Pro,, Steinberg UR-44, Zoom R24, Windows 7 64, AMD Phenom II X4 830 2.8 ghz 6 gig. ram, Axiom 61,Rhode M5's, Shure SH55, B1 Behringer, SM58, SM57, 70's Strat, Vox AC30,, Alexis MICTube Duo Preamp, Nano Patch Big Knob,
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jBranam
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Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
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http://www.reverbnation.com/granicysquare/song/20242122-granicy-square-have-i-lost-you

that is the final product. was kinda rushed at the end... client wanted to post it and was completely happy with it. but me i could have tweaked it a bit more i think and warm it a tad... but client knows best.

i have been told not to linger on songs because the more time spent... you tweak it to death and being somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to music... i could have tweaked from now until the day after doom's day. check it out! and tell me what you think. (no you don't have to respond in both locations. i put a link in both threads pertaining to the work.)
Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
66d35
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Joined: 18/04/2012 08:37:33
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Couple of general observations. You will often get real "hiss" or high noise floor on things sent in recorded on less than stellar equipment. The little Tascam/Zoom recorders, for example. Miracles of technology - but noisy. It is enough to be obvious in quiet sections. Noise removal tools can help, but invariably also effect the rest of the signal, often inducing strange 'phasing'' artifacts. Best to avoid if possible. There is a reason for nice things like Neve/Audient/UA and other 'high end' preamps. They're very, very quiet - even when used with low output mics, ribbons, etc. I sometimes do use a Zoom R16 for mobile work, but go in via line level from an Audient ASP 008 preamp. The difference in background hiss level is huge. The standard Presonus preamps are not bad by any means, but they are not as quiet as you'll find on the $1K+ stuff, either.

As for 'room noise' there are two things. 1) Room acoustics, which you can deal with by various treatments and 2) Sound proofing - which is a major, major undertaking. Real 'pro' studios have both. In the latter case you are looking at silent duct air circulation, floating floors, and serious, heavy duty structural work....

I think you did good on that recording, by the way! A very respectable result.

Forgot to mention something else that can cause audible (and annoying) background "hiss/sizzle" issues. Electrical noise. Low level ground loops, general 'dirty' power... can be tricky to track down. I had that problem with an Audiobox VSL 1818 when connected to external preamps. There was this "sizzle", just audible, every time it was hooked up. Tried all kinds of connection permutations, mains power hookups - nothing. Only thing that solved it was a high quality line isolator box. In my main studio I run everything via a Furman power conditioner, too. Not only helps with 'dirty' power but provides really good insurance in case of severe surges and spikes. Not cheap - but worth it. Avoid the very cheap power conditioners, though... most do very little of any use. The Furman's really do work, however.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 05/03/2014 06:28:09

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Gizzmo0815
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A free alternative to a lot of the relatively expensive noise removal tools is ReaFir. It's a plug that comes with Reaper, but you can go to the Cockos site and download VST versions of the plugins. It's basically a multiband gate with infinte bands...extremely powerful. But is has a noise removal capability, simply turn on "build noise profile" during the quiet bits in your song and "record" the room noise. The plug will build a profile of the sound and then once you turn it on will subtract it from the track. Used VERY carefully it's as good as any of the for-pay plugs out there, and is completely free.

Be cautious though, it can also seriously mess up your tracks if used too heavily...

Not the prettiest plug in the world, but quite powerful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 05/03/2014 10:22:18

Computer: Lenovo y560, 2.0 GHz quad core, 8 gb RAM, Win 7 (x64)
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jemusic
Presonic
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Joined: 16/12/2010 14:14:20
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It does sound like hiss or mic pre amp noise to be exact and not room tone as I initially thought.

Some of those portable recorders have poor noise performance in their mic preamps. The latest Zoom H6 though has a way lower noise floor than all the previous models. People complained and they finally cleaned it up but re designing the Mic pres. So the H6 is the only quiet model and the only one worth having (from that point of view that is)

Recording loud sounds is Ok because the Mic Pre noise does not become so obvious then. Less gain required.

A good test with any of these things is to something like the room tone test I mentioned earlier. Set up the device in a very quiet room and crank up the Mic gain. Playback and listen for any noisy electronics. A quiet device still won't show up any electronics hiss even under these conditions. You will just be hearing the sound of a quiet room which is never fully quiet.
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Bub
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Joined: 28/08/2013 22:12:35
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jBranam wrote: ... that is the final product. was kinda rushed at the end... client wanted to post it and was completely happy with it. but me i could have tweaked it a bit more i think and warm it a tad... but client knows best.


Sound wise it's really good, but something doesn't sound right on the guitar to me. It almost sounds like he's using the edge of his pick when strumming and more sliding the pick on the strings rather than strumming. It's sounds like MP3 artifacts probably caused by Reverbnation when you uploaded it. I'd like to hear a Hi-Q mp3 of this but I see they are selling it and probably don't want a freebie floating around out there.

"I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with my tongue than spend one more minute with you."
jBranam
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Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
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thanks shane i was thinking something was a little off but it just may be me (you know how our ears are) i know he requested wav 44.1 16 bit for the output which ain't the best by no means BUT it still sounds a little diff on my end so i have been wondering if reverbnation compresses things like youtube does.

well he said i could post a copy to soundcloud for you guys to listen to or i could put in my dropbox and send you a link to DL my original final... i asked if it were ok because i want you guys to critique my work and he said it was ok. myself i would prefer giving you a link to DL the original because i don't trust soundcloud either.

so let me pop a copy into my dropbox and i will send you (shane) the link in a PM. if any others want to scrutinize me... then send me a PM and request the link to the original.

if the 'nation' has it as mp3 then THAT may be the issue... and that is beyond me or what i have done i sent you a PM with link shane and thanks for taking the time to check it out

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 05/03/2014 16:40:43

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
Bub
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Joined: 28/08/2013 22:12:35
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Got the link and listened to the .wav.

It sounds the same to me which must mean their mp3 conversion is quite good.

I'm not sure what it is to be honest. It sounds like some kind of artifacts maybe? Did you use Melodyne to fix a note or something like that? Sometimes I get that kind of a sound when I use it.

But if he's happy, that's all that matters. And the song is really good and I doubt that 99% of people would pick up on it. We're all musician's here and very critical of course. The vast majority of people aren't going to be that way.

It's a really good mix, good song, and great performance which imo for this style of music is 99.9% of what makes a great recording.

Shane

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/03/2014 04:13:50

"I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with my tongue than spend one more minute with you."
jBranam
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66d35... thanks for the compliment. and gizmo... i will check it out and thanks. as for the quiet room test... that is an excellent idea and thanks for the idea. but to me... it just sounded like the mic gain was WAY too high on the guitar. i heard that same hiss all my life recording on crap equipment. i still believe that the tascam mic has some type of auto gain on it. it seemed to me like it was trying real hard to record some sound when there was no sound. not knocking the artist one bit but.... poop in... poop out! you have to have quality recordings to start with. i am quite happy with the outcome with what i had to work with... but it STILL urks me on all the trash i hear. but i could only do so much and with him wanting to post (i think it may have been a contest or something) i did not get to play with it as much as i really wanted.

and shane thanks for listening to the .wav i compared both last night and they did sound close to me also so maybe 'nation' don't stomp on it.

it is all water under the bridge now... but i appreciate the ideas and tricks you guys offered!

p.s. no i did not doctor vocals with melodyne. i thought about it but i felt the slightly off pitch made it more human and folky... they have excellent voices and excellent pitch for the most part so i couldn't bring myself to fix the very few and minute offs.


jay

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 06/03/2014 06:13:26

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jBranam
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Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
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i know the guitar was recorded on the tascam... but i am not sure what they recorded the vocals with... except his new telefunken mic (he just got sponsored by them and did a photo shoot today for telefunken) it is a vocal mic (made of wood) ... but that baby sounds "hot" (lots of gain)... good tone and sound... but not very warm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/03/2014 06:10:01

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
talmen
Presonoid
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Joined: 28/07/2010 23:56:13
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Different mics have different "self-noise" values. Some mics produce enough of their own hiss that maintaining an optimal signal to noise ratio can become a real concern, and that is especially exaggerated in cases where you are recording quiet sources but you need keep lots of headroom for a wide dynamic range at the same time. If there was some sort of cheap built-in mic on a recorder involved, that could have had an ALC (automatic level control) and those can be quite nasty. I hear either that or a compressor pumping in one or two spots. It is a nice sound and a nice demo. These days, people use plug-ins to add in all kinds of analog crud to their tracks in the effort to reclaim an analog vibe and sound. The tone of the female vocalist could use some attention when the stereo widening of the voices happens -- she comes off a little harsh in that passage. Nice work, though.
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