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gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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Lets see if we can figure out just exactly what you hope to accomplish here.. You do realize that the inserts are only for inserting a signal to either inputs one, two or three, and are not global...

let me ask you this, are you looking for MONO signal in both ears or are you looking for Stereo ... because I'm having a tough time figuring out exactly what you want to accomplish here...

I have read this whole thread again and what you stated in your 4th post here is you have a 16.4.2 and you want to run a pair of auxes down the snake (backwards) using channels 1 and 2 of the snake which are XLR...ok, connector by connector here is what that would take....

FORGET about the inserts...on the rolls...

From the mixer:
Aux 5 out is a TRS/TS 1/4 " out... so a TS/TRS 1/4" male connector to an XLR F connector plugged into the whip on channel one... ( tip of 1/4" is sent to pin 2 of the XLR pin 3 to ring and pin one to shield, or shield open for TS 1/4" ends) @ the stage end an XLR M > XLR M cable to the Rolls unit. left input...

Same with the other channel... with channel 2 sent to the Rolls RIGHT input...

Now you CAN do this with the 1/4" inputs but if you use balanced connections all the way you will have a cleaner signal all the way through...

Hopefully this is clear and if you have any other thoughts ... well fire away..BUT please try and be specific... it's been difficult to tell what EXACTLY you are trying to accomplish here...

With the above method you will get aux 5 send (1/4" TRS) on the 16.4.2 sent through the snake on channel 1 (which is typically a send to the mixer from the stage) @ the stage end, a XLR M to XLR M cable is plugged into the LEFT XLR input of the ROLLS unit...

The Aux 6 output is sent in the SAME WAY down snake channel 2 to the rolls RIGHT input ( you have to understand this is BACKWARDS in snake vernacular, and is probably the reason for your confusion...typically, you would send FROM the stage TO the mixer down channels... 1 and 2...)

This would give you Aux 5 in the left ear and aux 6 in the right ear...is this what your trying to do?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 31/01/2013 04:36:55

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
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klarkkentster
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Joined: 12/11/2012 18:36:00
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Gadget69 - First off...thank you for hanging with me on this one. I'm somewhat new at this and I'm sure my lack of terminology and such....has been frustrating.

Inserts - Yes. My goal has been to have two separate discreet mixes to one box. One using either the "inputs" ( XLR or the 1/4 "Right/Mono") and another going into the "inserts".


I would be happy with either (mono or stereo)... as long as the mono signal in both ears.


Your step by step description is exactly what I am trying to do. (I was hoping to utilize the inserts verses the xlr ins on the Rolls though to get two discreet mixes on one box) But, If it would easier to purchase another Rolls unit and follow your steps... i'm cool with that.



It sounds like my next step is to verify my connectors between the Aux outs 5/6 going to snake whip 1/2 are Balanced. I'm assuming how they are wired should be fine? ( ( tip of 1/4" is sent to pin 2 of the XLR pin 3 to ring and pin one to shield, or shield open for TS 1/4" ends)
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gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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All right lets just eliminate the snake for a moment, eliminate 5/6 auxes and see what the inserts do... in this case, when you insert something THAT is all you get at that headphone output...this means anything plugged into the main in's will NOT get through...If you have the cables you can test this theory but the insert is a STEREO insert and not a traditional insert that sends and receives. on the same jack...

Now lets look at what we need to do to get what you want...through the snake

So, unless you want to gobble up 4 auxes for stereo you will want to (at the box end on stage) have a special cable that goes from snake input 1 to headphone amp insert one...(this means ONLY this mix will go to ONLY headphone one out...

This cable will HAVE to be:
XLR M on one end, TRS Male on the other, HOWEVER pin one of the XLR goes to tip AND ring on the TRS... pin 2 of the XLR goes to the sleeve of the TRS . In some configs you would also add pin one of the XLR to the sleeve, this can cause ground loops and humm and buzz.. you may want to try it both ways...

the same for channel 2 of the snake and headphone insert 2... which will go to headphone 2 only...

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

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BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

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klarkkentster
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Joined: 12/11/2012 18:36:00
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Your awesome!!

I think we are heading towards a resolution... Woo Hoo. I included an attachment to just make sure I am grasping what I need to do.
Capture.JPG
[Thumb - Capture.JPG]
 Description [Disk] Download
 Filesize 29 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  263 time(s)

Presonus 16.4.2
Mac Mini
Netgear N600 Router
Ipad Retina
2 - QSC -k12
1 Mackie SRM - 450
1- QSC Ksub
Driverack PX
Voice Live 2
Variax Guitar
Hd-500
Taylor 414ce
Mac Book Pro
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Keith McMillen SS-12s
gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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Location: Northern Mn
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No... sorry... like this:
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
klarkkentster
Prenoob

Joined: 12/11/2012 18:36:00
Messages: 95
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awesome.. I will try and re wire one of the cables and test it out Sunday.


Thank you for your help.
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gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
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Your welcome...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
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knerr
Presonic
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Joined: 16/11/2010 20:21:29
Messages: 140
Location: West Central IN
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klarkkentster: were you able to try this, and if so, did you encounter any noise issues?

gadget: Will using the wiring you showed unbalance the signal? Just wondering how critical the balancing is, in practice. Also, how would running a stereo signal down one channel of the snake affect noise rejection, if at all? We are being spec'ed a single RA53b for every musician, so all connections can be balanced, which seems like a waste, but if it's critical, so be it. But, it makes me wonder a couple things:

1. Is there another single channel stereo amp that has balanced inputs that's not a fortune?

2. What are the single channel Rolls units designed for, as they do not have balanced inputs? I was under the impression that these were fairly popular for IEM, and I would guess a lot of these get their signal from returns on a snake.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for any input.
Matthew
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klarkkentster
Prenoob

Joined: 12/11/2012 18:36:00
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I haven't tried it yet. We ended up having another issue I focused on. I will try and re-wire a cable before Sunday and try it.



If you are using one per musician and have no need to add more per unit...have you looked at the Pm351 by Rolls?

Not sure how you can run a stereo signal down the snake without using two channels.
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gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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Location: Northern Mn
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Balanced snake lines have a shield over each core pair, better quality snakes have better shielding, some of the cheaper snakes might have crosstalk if their shielding is only foil...but that you'll have to determine yourself, with your snake, sending line level signals shouldn't be a problem @ 100' and under.. The noise rejection is a function of the shield, each pair AND the whole cable should be shielded. This does not address potential ground loop issues however, as sometime you can disconnect the shield at one end or the other and still have a shielded signal within the core...

This would indeed unbalance the signal, as a balanced signal that is double ended requires 2 wires plus a shield...This would be an unbalanced stereo signal sent down a single snake cable. You could easily do it balanced with 2 snake channels, but the source and destination would HAVE to be balanced to begin with..


Not sure about headphone devices, but the Rolls units look pretty comprehensive, in this case were using unbalanced signals because he wants to have 2 inputs to 2 different headsets, using the inserts... otherwise this unit is a single in multi output headphone amp...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
knerr
Presonic
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Joined: 16/11/2010 20:21:29
Messages: 140
Location: West Central IN
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Thanks guys. I have looked at both the PM50 and PM351 but since they do not have balanced inputs, the rep from CCI would suggest these would not be suitable, which is why he spec'ed several of the RA53b's for our church, using each as a single channel amp via the balanced inputs. Just seems clunky to me. I'd be happy using those as 4 channel amps or perhaps several single channel amps, but trying to see if the unbalanced inputs are going to be an issue. Not sure exactly how far the run is, as it goes up through the ceiling. I guess I just need to do some testing.
Thanks again.
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gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
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Well keep us informed...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
 
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