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Preamps overload very easily on 1818 ------->>> SOLVED! via Audiobox VSL 1.2 Driver
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sbake
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Joined: 04/12/2011 07:47:11
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I meant let the developers of Studio One in Germany design an interface that integrates well with Studio One. US branch isn't doing it right at the moment.
jpettit
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I think there are many things being talked about on this thread and unfortunately a lot of lack of clarity.
1) Are the inputs too sensitive (gain wise)?
2) Is the sensitivity of the knob position vs. gain right?
3) Are they hotter or not compares to other interfaces?
4) Does it clipped too easily?
5) Can the clip warning indicators be improved?

I did some testing here today to try to put my finger on it or perhaps bring clarity:
For a given sine wave going through a condenser AKG microphone here is what I found and verified with direct computer input to the VSL as well as cross referenced on my RME card. (+/- a couple of db)
S1V2--------VSL
-80db--------Not on scale
-60db-------- Not on scale
-48db-------- Not on scale
---------------------------------
-36db-------- meter starts to move
-20db-------- first major line
-15db-------- 2nd major line
-12db-------- 3rd major line
-6db-------- 4.5 half way between line 4 and 5
-3db-------- very near top of Meter
0db-------- last segment of meter (no red clipping indicator from 1818 hardware)

What I learned:
  • The VSL meter starts at about -36 DB so there is a decent signal by the time you even see anything on the meter. (This help me a lot) .. So I have moved to using the S1V2 input meter as a basis to set level (bigger range more accurate and clip indication) until they can improve the VSL metering.

  • The 1818 VSL can pick up a signal (condenser AKG mic) with the physical knob at zero. (I can get as much as -12 db with the knob all the way off. (so you might needs to use pads on you mics)

  • The knobs have a 40 position click on them. So 80 db of gain/40 = 2 db per click. So for a mic 0db input gain is at about 11 o’clock. 20 clicks 12 o’clock is +10db

  • The red clip light is currently a “way to late start over indicator”. I hope it is not measured as an analogue signals and can be improve via software in the future.


  • Please don’t think these interfaces don’t work. They do. They are a good bang for the buck in my opinion and just take some mind/workflow calibration.
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    MR4Y
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    jpettit wrote:I think there are many things being talked about on this thread and unfortunately a lot of lack of clarity.
    1) Are the inputs too sensitive (gain wise)?
    2) Is the sensitivity of the knob position vs. gain right?
    3) Are they hotter or not compares to other interfaces?
    4) Does it clipped too easily?
    5) Can the clip warning indicators be improved?

    I did some testing here today to try to put my finger on it or perhaps bring clarity:
    For a given sine wave going through a condenser AKG microphone here is what I found and verified with direct computer input to the VSL as well as cross referenced on my RME card. (+/- a couple of db)
    S1V2--------VSL
    -80db--------Not on scale
    -60db-------- Not on scale
    -48db-------- Not on scale
    ---------------------------------
    -36db-------- meter starts to move
    -20db-------- first major line
    -15db-------- 2nd major line
    -12db-------- 3rd major line
    -6db-------- 4.5 half way between line 4 and 5
    -3db-------- very near top of Meter
    0db-------- last segment of meter (no red clipping indicator from 1818 hardware)

    What I learned:
  • The VSL meter starts at about -36 DB so there is a decent signal by the time you even see anything on the meter. (This help me a lot) .. So I have moved to using the S1V2 input meter as a basis to set level (bigger range more accurate and clip indication) until they can improve the VSL metering.

  • The 1818 VSL can pick up a signal (condenser AKG mic) with the physical knob at zero. (I can get as much as -12 db with the knob all the way off. (so you might needs to use pads on you mics)

  • The knobs have a 40 position click on them. So 80 db of gain/40 = 2 db per click. So for a mic 0db input gain is at about 11 o’clock. 20 clicks 12 o’clock is +10db

  • The red clip light is currently a “way to late start over indicator”. I hope it is not measured as an analogue signals and can be improve via software in the future.


  • Please don’t think these interfaces don’t work. They do. They are a good bang for the buck in my opinion and just take some mind/workflow calibration.


    Actually, the statement that you get signal with the gain pot at zero is confirmed in the 1814VSL specs:

    Gain Control Range for the mic pres: -15dB to +65dB

    Now compare that to the Firestudio Project mic pres:

    Gain Control Range: -4dB to +50dB

    Now compare that to the AudioBox USB mic pres:

    Gain Control Range: 0dB to +35dB
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    MR4Y
    Presonoid

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    Shameless bump.
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    beachside
    Presonic
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    Joined: 29/07/2010 00:29:21
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    MR4Y wrote:
    Actually, the statement that you get signal with the gain pot at zero is confirmed in the 1814VSL specs:

    Gain Control Range for the mic pres: -15dB to +65dB

    Now compare that to the Firestudio Project mic pres:

    Gain Control Range: -4dB to +50dB

    Now compare that to the AudioBox USB mic pres:

    Gain Control Range: 0dB to +35dB


    How is that confirmed in the specs? So the 1818 should have less gain (15dB attenuation) with the pot at 0 compared to the FSP (4dB attenuation). It would need to be a very, very large signal to pass through that.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/12/2011 02:48:29

    Focusrite 18i20. An '1818' that actually works as advertised and has great support!! But Presonus will continue the story it was all my systems and there is no hardware issue with the 1818 and the drivers are great.

    Almost two years on and Presonus continues to say it's a 'top priority' but have no driver updates, make excuses and blame others (Intel, USB3 Microsoft, Apple and now the company that writes their drivers!) when other companies have it all working on the same systems!! And it so refreshing to get regular software updates and responsive and effective support!

    And the 1818 does not have 'on-board DSP' as continues to be claimed.
    MR4Y
    Presonoid

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    beachside wrote:
    MR4Y wrote:
    Actually, the statement that you get signal with the gain pot at zero is confirmed in the 1814VSL specs:

    Gain Control Range for the mic pres: -15dB to +65dB

    Now compare that to the Firestudio Project mic pres:

    Gain Control Range: -4dB to +50dB

    Now compare that to the AudioBox USB mic pres:

    Gain Control Range: 0dB to +35dB


    How is that confirmed in the specs? So the 1818 should have less gain (15dB attenuation) with the pot at 0 compared to the FSP (4dB attenuation). It would need to be a very, very large signal to pass through that.


    Simple. You still have mic sound when the pot is at zero, which means the preamp don't have attenuation to the point where no volume is produced.
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    themuzic
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    MR4Y wrote:
    Actually, the statement that you get signal with the gain pot at zero is confirmed in the 1814VSL specs:


    Dude, look, I understand you're need to make this correction (1814) but let not be silly about this. Don't confuse folks that are just getting into this by taking a personal and mental correction public.

    It is an 1818 and despite what you think, if you're going to help people out, it should be addressed as such.

    I'm saying this because I have already been asked what an 1814 is.

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    MR4Y
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    themuzic wrote:
    MR4Y wrote:
    Actually, the statement that you get signal with the gain pot at zero is confirmed in the 1814VSL specs:


    Dude, look, I understand you're need to make this correction (1814) but let not be silly about this. Don't confuse folks that are just getting into this by taking a personal and mental correction public.

    It is an 1818 and despite what you think, if you're going to help people out, it should be addressed as such.

    I'm saying this because I have already been asked what an 1814 is.


    Ok.

    Now the extra stuff. Justin Spence talked about it(a question I sent) during the last webcast, so the OT might want to check it out.
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    beachside
    Presonic
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    jpettit wrote:The 1818 VSL can pick up a signal (condenser AKG mic) with the physical knob at zero. (I can get as much as -12 db with the knob all the way off. (so you might needs to use pads on you mics)


    This is a worry and shouldn't happen with the specs given. That sounds like a manufacturing issue with gains. Anyone from Presonus got a comment on this?
    Focusrite 18i20. An '1818' that actually works as advertised and has great support!! But Presonus will continue the story it was all my systems and there is no hardware issue with the 1818 and the drivers are great.

    Almost two years on and Presonus continues to say it's a 'top priority' but have no driver updates, make excuses and blame others (Intel, USB3 Microsoft, Apple and now the company that writes their drivers!) when other companies have it all working on the same systems!! And it so refreshing to get regular software updates and responsive and effective support!

    And the 1818 does not have 'on-board DSP' as continues to be claimed.
    MR4Y
    Presonoid

    Joined: 23/10/2011 08:44:32
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    beachside wrote:
    jpettit wrote:The 1818 VSL can pick up a signal (condenser AKG mic) with the physical knob at zero. (I can get as much as -12 db with the knob all the way off. (so you might needs to use pads on you mics)


    This is a worry and shouldn't happen with the specs given. That sounds like a manufacturing issue with gains. Anyone from Presonus got a comment on this?


    In the last webcast, I asked Justin Spence about it, check it out.
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    Line 6 POD XT Live

    How can anyone call something so divisive a community?
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    beachside
    Presonic
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    I did see that but I don't think Justin was across the issue at all and had seen this thread.
    Focusrite 18i20. An '1818' that actually works as advertised and has great support!! But Presonus will continue the story it was all my systems and there is no hardware issue with the 1818 and the drivers are great.

    Almost two years on and Presonus continues to say it's a 'top priority' but have no driver updates, make excuses and blame others (Intel, USB3 Microsoft, Apple and now the company that writes their drivers!) when other companies have it all working on the same systems!! And it so refreshing to get regular software updates and responsive and effective support!

    And the 1818 does not have 'on-board DSP' as continues to be claimed.
    themuzic
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    MR4Y wrote:
    beachside wrote:
    jpettit wrote:The 1818 VSL can pick up a signal (condenser AKG mic) with the physical knob at zero. (I can get as much as -12 db with the knob all the way off. (so you might needs to use pads on you mics)


    This is a worry and shouldn't happen with the specs given. That sounds like a manufacturing issue with gains. Anyone from Presonus got a comment on this?


    In the last webcast, I asked Justin Spence about it, check it out.


    And why can't you just tell us instead of saying see the video?

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    sbushman18
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    So these preamps in the AB VSL series are xmax pres that run off of +/- 12v instead of +/-15v in the Studiolive and Firestudio series?

    So that means 24v rails instead of 30v rails which is why there's leass headroom. Are there any other differences between the VSL series and the other xmax products? Same compnents etc? I took a look inside and though the elecrolytics were plentiful in the circuit as well as low grade. I am wondering if replacing those will yield better performance. I am pretty sure the VSL pres are noisier than my SL and Firestudio mobile pres, save for doing a direct scientific comparison.

    I see a lot of 33079 quad op-amps in there too, and was guessing these are for the line ins and not the preamps, correct? Not that there's anything wrong with those when used properly but if they weren't surface mount I might get experimental with replacements too.

    I also noticed the FS mobile has a higher spec converter chip, same as SL while the VSL and other Firestudio interfaces share a slightly lower spec part. To be honest, this should make very little difference in practical use especially considering the pres and op-amps.

    I just want to know how loosely the term xmax is used. Is it describing the design, the overal build or just the general series of IC free pres from presonus. I would hope at least the electrolytics in the SL are better grade parts than what's in the VSL boxes. Although with the difference in price point it should go without saying.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/12/2011 23:12:16

    bobbybland
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    No way to bypass the mic pre's if using other pre's at all right ?
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    bobbybland wrote:No way to bypass the mic pre's if using other pre's at all right ?


    That is correct!!

    http://www.homestudiotrainer.webs.com/
    http://www.youtube.com/user/themuzic
    Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
    Skype - themuzic
    Phone - 773-303-7260
    I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

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