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The death of a 16.4.2 ?
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carcrusher
Prenoob
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Joined: 07/01/2011 22:19:16
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Is the board plugged into the wall or is there a UPS keeping the voltage safe?
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roblof
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Joined: 12/04/2011 21:33:08
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I've not opened my sl24 (yet) so I can't tell what's inside.

However, most of the PSU's in other stuff I've repaired have had the switching diode(s) gone bad (either fully open or shortcircuited).

Nowdays when I replace a diode I try to fit one with better specs from reputable manufacturers and made sure that thermal connectivity to heatsink is optimal (I've seen some with too little/none thermal paste for instance).

Never had any failure ever since.....
Behringer x32 with Dante, x32-rack, s16 stagebox, p16 monitor system, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, M-Audio FastTrack Pro, Studio One Pro v2, NI Komplete 5-8 Ultimate, Cubase 4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Yamaha 02r.....
PhilG
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the SL power supplies run thermal pads onto the heatsink that is then screwed the the underside of the case with 3 screws

2 x SL16.4.2's
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roblof
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Hmmm, I haven't heard any fan inside the console and not seen any dustmarks either.

If the bottom of the console doesn't allow for any airflow, i.e. not using the sponge standoffs or even have it mounted in some case with shock absorbing foam, then the heat won't be able to disapate.

The air vents on the sides wont be able to maintanin enough airflow to cool the heat.
Behringer x32 with Dante, x32-rack, s16 stagebox, p16 monitor system, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, M-Audio FastTrack Pro, Studio One Pro v2, NI Komplete 5-8 Ultimate, Cubase 4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Yamaha 02r.....
swdamps
Prenoob

Joined: 19/05/2011 16:03:42
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i noticed there are not any replies from presonus in this thread since early in the piece.
they really need to get thier shit together on this.

My 24 has just come back from its 2nd meltdown and both of my 16`s have been trouble also. its a shame as they are a very nice desk when they work.

next time mine goes it will be replaced with something more reliable.
power seems to be a problem.
Jeff Gu
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Joined: 07/06/2011 03:59:21
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Mr. Rivers, I believe I'm going to have to go with the poking fun at the company route. I rather like Allen & Heath equipment, and for a few decades I've had the good luck of never having a power supply go out on one of their boards. The big desks with external supplies, I have backups... I use them a couple times a year just so I know they're still working.

When they came out with their ZED line of mixers, I bought the $400 ZED-14 because it's a nice live sound mixer when you only need a few channels for a small venue. Also use it for a drums submixer. Sounds beautiful, gets steady use. Cheap. Made in China.

Power supply has never gone out. Nothing else has, either. USB digital out (stereo mix only) still works as advertised. In fact, I've only ever called A&H once in the last three decades or so. Nice folks. No smartass replies or "you must have broke something" attitude.

Now, PreSonus tells me my StudioLive mixer is better than all those A&H junkers put together. Well, it does have more bells and whistles and digital goodness.

I'm gonna bet it ends up being a $2000 boat anchor. Call me pessimistic, but that's my prediction.


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steve griffiths
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Joined: 31/08/2010 09:20:48
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Have we seen a higher incidence with PSU failures at 50Hz than 60Hz? When the Crown MicroTechs first came out they had thermal and power problems in 50Hz countries - wasn't the voltage - the longer duty cycle was impacting the charge capability of the capacitors, and also stayed at peak voltage for a longer time period which stressed close tolerance components. Problem was fixed in a hardware update, If there is any study done on failure rate versus mains frequency it may shed some light.

Cheers..Grif
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steve griffiths
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Joined: 31/08/2010 09:20:48
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Sorry Pressed the button Twice

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/06/2011 09:29:39

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PhilG
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steve griffiths wrote:Have we seen a higher incidence with PSU failures at 50Hz than 60Hz? When the Crown MicroTechs first came out they had thermal and power problems in 50Hz countries - wasn't the voltage - the longer duty cycle was impacting the charge capability of the capacitors, and also stayed at peak voltage for a longer time period which stressed close tolerance components. Problem was fixed in a hardware update, If there is any study done on failure rate versus mains frequency it may shed some light.

Cheers..Grif


unsure, they seem to fail everywhere in the world, Presonus has still to admit there is a problem yet we all know there is

2 x SL16.4.2's
Audiobox USB
Studio One V2 Pro
/ Rack System
AMD FX-4170 / 16GB DDR3 / Win7x64 / Via 6308FW Onboard
/Mobile System
Toshiba Satellite P200 / 8GB DDR2 / Win7x64 / Ti FW & i7 13" MBP
/Wireless
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roblof
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Joined: 12/04/2011 21:33:08
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roblof wrote:Hmmm, I haven't heard any fan inside the console and not seen any dustmarks either.

If the bottom of the console doesn't allow for any airflow, i.e. not using the sponge standoffs or even have it mounted in some case with shock absorbing foam, then the heat won't be able to disapate.

The air vents on the sides wont be able to maintanin enough airflow to cool the heat.


So, I'm curious....

How are your consoles mounted when they are in use? Do you use cases that may affect thermal dissipation?

Using my trusty IR-temperature gun I have to say that the airflow in these mixers are quite on the low side

Since the mixer is spec'ed at 100w and not having a fan this would normally not be too much of a problem, but combine this with some venue that is warm (i.e. many people, sunlight, power-amp mounted underneath the mixer.....) then I'd say you live on the risky side of stressing the components.

This would be even more true if the mixer is mounted in some compact case and/or having the bottom of the mixer not have access to air (i.e. placed on wood, foam, plastics....)

As Steve said - If the components are close tolerance, this may very well be a real cause of some breakdowns.
Behringer x32 with Dante, x32-rack, s16 stagebox, p16 monitor system, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, M-Audio FastTrack Pro, Studio One Pro v2, NI Komplete 5-8 Ultimate, Cubase 4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Yamaha 02r.....
PhilG
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mine lives on a flat shock foam base - the mixer is not recessed in any way and has always been used in air-conditioned environments

2 x SL16.4.2's
Audiobox USB
Studio One V2 Pro
/ Rack System
AMD FX-4170 / 16GB DDR3 / Win7x64 / Via 6308FW Onboard
/Mobile System
Toshiba Satellite P200 / 8GB DDR2 / Win7x64 / Ti FW & i7 13" MBP
/Wireless
Ipad v1 16gb - Samsung Galaxy Tab - Asus Black Diamond router

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roblof
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Joined: 12/04/2011 21:33:08
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PhilG wrote:mine lives on a flat shock foam base - the mixer is not recessed in any way and has always been used in air-conditioned environments


This foam base will act as an heat insulator since the bottom of the console act as an huge heatsink.

Normally the functionality should be something like this (passive air cooling):

The bottom plate gets hot since the psu heatsinks are mounted on it, making it hot due to conductive heat transfer, so essentislly it's acting like an huge heatsink.

Since the bottom plate now is hot it will heat the surrounding air making it escape around the console (i.e. not the air vents!) since hot air rise upwards.

Now the hot air will be replaced with cool air from the environment (typically 25 degC). This process will let the bottom plate dissipate the heat from the internal heatsinks, letting the internals of the console operate at an comfortable temperature..

If the bottom of the console now is standing on foam it will eventually lie head-to-head against it. This will make the heat dissipation not work since the "huge bottom heatsink" now is insulated like an thermos bottle and will therefor heat the air inside the console instead.

But what about the air vents you might ask - Well, the only air vents I've found are on the side of the console mid-height.

This means that the air will heat and first get caught in the upper air pocket (try touch the console above the xlr inputs and compare to the rest of the console) and become a heat trap.

Secondly - For passive air flow to work you need to have access to cool air. But since there are no air vents on (or close to) the bottom of the console there can be no air circulation with cooling air (this is more or less how a sauna works) and due to thermodynamics you can't get cool air from the side air vents unless an fan is mounted there...

Does this make sense to you?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/06/2011 14:34:07

Behringer x32 with Dante, x32-rack, s16 stagebox, p16 monitor system, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, M-Audio FastTrack Pro, Studio One Pro v2, NI Komplete 5-8 Ultimate, Cubase 4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Yamaha 02r.....
roblof
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Joined: 12/04/2011 21:33:08
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Bump...

Bumping since the forum seems to be out of sync with content vs. main screen. I've seen this a couple of times the last week.
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PhilG
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good points you have made but the mixer never gets hot - it gets warm around the lcd screen area - maby 30-34deg C

I checked underside last night at a big recording session that went for around 6 hours straight and it was about the same where the heatsink screws to the bottom of the chassis. I cant see it overheating due to this

2 x SL16.4.2's
Audiobox USB
Studio One V2 Pro
/ Rack System
AMD FX-4170 / 16GB DDR3 / Win7x64 / Via 6308FW Onboard
/Mobile System
Toshiba Satellite P200 / 8GB DDR2 / Win7x64 / Ti FW & i7 13" MBP
/Wireless
Ipad v1 16gb - Samsung Galaxy Tab - Asus Black Diamond router

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roblof
Presonoid
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Joined: 12/04/2011 21:33:08
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PhilG wrote:good points you have made but the mixer never gets hot - it gets warm around the lcd screen area - maby 30-34deg C


On my sl24 I measure 47 degC at the top and 41 degC around the lcd.

At the bottom base the temperature is between 50-60 degC depending on where I measure...

Just for fun I'm gonna try and see how much the temp raises when I put foam on the bottom of the mixer. I'll get back to you on this one...
Behringer x32 with Dante, x32-rack, s16 stagebox, p16 monitor system, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, M-Audio FastTrack Pro, Studio One Pro v2, NI Komplete 5-8 Ultimate, Cubase 4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Yamaha 02r.....
 
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