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feedback / dsp units
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Jerryd
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Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
Messages: 698
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BOClark wrote:Just a few notes:
The picture above...if the guitar player on the right puts his foot up on my monitor like that...he would not have a monitor in front of him by the end of the song.
Secondly...the stage volume would come down if I got feedback! Sorry, but the band won't pay for diaphrames or blown woofers. They will simply just go home and not think twice about it. Or maybe they would...thinking how the soundman sucked!

I have a DBX Driverack and I am about to stop using it. I use it for the crossover feature and the eq function only. To me...I am loosing the sound I am used to hearing. Lately, my sound has been muddy and I am not liking it. Nothing wrong with the speakers, just the sound from how I got the DBX setup.

Feedback from the Stage comes from eq'ing the monitors. Doing a good "ringing" out of the monitors is the most effective method. Sometimes, you can over eq the monitors and the monitors sound like crud! Done this many times. For the money, I would actually buy several good dual 15 or 31 band eq's and use your own ears for the feedback eliminating. I wouldn't put a DBX on the monitors unless you are running more than a 1000 watts into them.


Don't blame the Driverack if your sound is muddy. Is pulling the DR out of the chain going to magically "Clear it up"?

Grab a sub parametric filter and set it at 100Hz with a Q of 6-8. Apply a 6-8dB CUT while listening and SWEEP it up and down the spectrum. This should tell you where the mud is at. Sometimes this takes two filters: one down around 60Hz and the other around 100Hz for starters. In clubs where there are NO acoustic treatment -- this WILL help. Cut appropriate amount.

Another thing I see quite often is bands pushing 3 inch voice coil subs half to death. The High Pass on the crossover is set to 30Hz which is virtually impossible for a 3 inch voice coil sub to do that for more than a second before the cab flies apart. The speaker is luffing like crazy not producing anything. Raise the crossover up so the power isn't being dedicated to something the speaker can't reproduce.

All you can do is have the drummer start stomping his kick and while he does that -- raise your high pass and Keep going until it sounds more musical. This may be 50Hz or higher. Who cares -- it will sound more musical.

Bo -- if your Driverack is making your system sound bad then I am sorry buddy -- you are not using it correctly.

If a speaker comes to me without its controller and ALL top quality speakers have their own dedicated speaker controller -- then I have to use a driverack on it because speakers are flawed by nature and the corrections need to be taken.

Like I said in this post earlier to Phil and a few others said the same thing. I quit using my AFS Wizard because it messed with the tone of the system too much.

A RTA app and a graphic will get you pretty good results especially if you are able to make the cut on the EQ of the offending channel over the Global EQ
BOClark
Presonic
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Joined: 26/10/2010 04:14:15
Messages: 244
Location: Weatherford, TX
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I agree with everything you said...whole heartedly. It isn't set up right! I will admit that. From room to room, it take more time to mess with than what I have time for. Simply stating that if you don't get the opportunity to setup at DBX properly, your sound can and will suffer.
I always found it easier and faster to setup my sound with an external 31 band eq and a crossover. Really silly stupid and almost fool proof. I miss the days of going in, plugging in a MP3 player and listening the FOH. Make a tweak hear and there on the 31 band and off we went into the show.
These days, it is push this button to get to this page turn this wheel, push this wheel, go to next page, adjust this setting, push this and turn that, then go to next page...just saying.
I can't blame the DBX for my own laziness...however, I have seriously thought of putting it on the back burner for a couple of shows, just to see if I miss it. Maybe I will...maybe I won't?
PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2
BOSE Tonematch Mixer
(1) Carvin DCM 2004L
(4) Carvin PM12 Monitors
(2) Bose L1 Model 1
(2) Bose B2 Subwoofers
(2) JBL PRX 515 Main Speakers
Audio Technica Wireless Microphones
Shure PGX Wireless Guitar, Microphone and Lapel Mic
Sennheiser 835 Microphones
Shure SM57 Mics
Audio Technica MBL1000s and MBL 2000s
EV PL35 Drum Mic Kit
Alesis D4 Drum Module DDrum Trigger Kick
Lenovo T420
HP DV6000 Laptop
iPad 1, iPad 2, iPad 4 and iPad mini
Now using BOSE L1 Model 1 with 2 B1 Bass Modules for Small Clubs. I have also used my 2 BOSE Compacts as FOH with the PreSonus SL16.4.2
Jerryd
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
Messages: 698
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Bo -- have you tried to flatten the system outdoors using a measurement mic? That can make a big difference.

Do you have a basic two channel input device like a firestudiomobile? I can get you going on some FFT stuff and really dial in the system.


I know the DR stuff can be a pain BUT honestly once it is set up correctly -- you will hardly have to fool with it anymore. The rest you can handle from the mixer. Piece of cake!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/06/2011 16:54:14

robare99
Presonic
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Joined: 16/05/2011 18:25:55
Messages: 725
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BOClark wrote:Just a few notes:
The picture above...if the guitar player on the right puts his foot up on my monitor like that...he would not have a monitor in front of him by the end of the song.
Secondly...the stage volume would come down if I got feedback! Sorry, but the band won't pay for diaphrames or blown woofers. They will simply just go home and not think twice about it. Or maybe they would...thinking how the soundman sucked!


Myself, as long as they aren't trampling on the monitor, kicking it, trying to stand on it or generally doing something stupid, a foot on it isn't too much of a concern, but that's just me. I do tell them exactly that as well. I totally agree though, that reasonable stage volumes are key in fighting feedback. If the band isn't stupid loud, than it's definitely easier for them to hear the monitors. I do realize guitars DO need some volume, but I tell them to have it lower, so it's more of a personal monitor. If needed I can always put a bit of guitar in their monitors.

I try to get out to a few shows here and there to see other systems etc etc. I'm surprised at the amount of SOS systems out there (speakers on sticks) and I understand better what a lot of the bands are dealing with. More often than not, guitar cabs are not mic'd and so the guitar have to throw off stage, and feed the crowd that way. I've been asked to come to the big city to mix and bring my gear since "so few places do what you do" for me, everything gets mic'd, DI the bass and keys if there's any. A reasonable stage volume also gives me more control over what's coming out the front as well.

With my current board (PowerMax 16) I have a general starting point for vocals in the monitors, before the band arrives, and often it's enough or they just need a bit more of this or that. It will be interesting to start working with the SL24.4.2 mine should be arriving in a couple weeks!
 
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