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Studio One Dedicated Controller
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dangerzoltan
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misshoot

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themuzic
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.....and your post means?

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dangerzoltan
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...

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themuzic
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dangerzoltan wrote:means that it seems to be the controller that so many wished for.


Um, no. We wish. That's actually one of the VSL boards already sold by Presonus. It's one of their mixers and does not control Studio One.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/12/2011 10:02:13


http://www.homestudiotrainer.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/themuzic
Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
Skype - themuzic
Phone - 773-303-7260
I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

Gateway Tower - Intel Core i5 3330 CPU 3GHz 8GB Ram and 64bit Windows 8
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dangerzoltan
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my bad, sorry.
bigcohoona
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I just read this thread again and loved some of the ideas in it.

I would not mind at all if Presonus came out with their own dedicated hardware (be it sooner vs. later ).

One thing I thought I'd add to the thread is that for many of us a motorized fader version of a studio live might not be the best solution.

I don't think I'm alone in that I personally have nowhere that I could actually place something that large. If Presonus does not have planas for an integrated keyboard ala Novation-esque or Music Computing-ish, which I don't think I'd focus on that either, the controller they create needs to be capable of sitting on top of keyboards or comfortably in front of, or perhaps behind. I felt that the new Steiny controllers did a great job of this, as did the Euphonix Artist series. Novation's Faderport is also a great size for this.

I also would welcome a very tight integration with a Presonus interface/adda (though something better than the 48khz Studiolive io's).

A breakout box similar to something Cakewalk developed at one time I think may be a perfect solution. Create a controller with a small footprint for the desk real-estate but which connects easily (and with a long enough cable) to the optional, included, or to any Presonus io's.

If you had a designer who was clever enough, it may even be possible to create a controller which could have the io mounted or dismounted for a rack so it could have a more flexible design for live or studio uses.

I'm thinking Presonus needs to team up with Music Computing (based in Austin.. and users of Presonus products) for a tailor made Studio One controller/keyboard.

I'd still love to see support from Novation and Eucon integration though... or a Presonus S1 iPad app.

~C

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madehumble
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I think many of us want this and that for a dedicated Studio One Controller, but don't think about it from a business angle. The market is flooded, I mean flooded with keyboard controllers. Even though it is a wish of some of you, it doesn't make sense for Presonus to dive into that market when it hasn't completed it's innovative approach to the DAW market. Especially when Studio One competitors are making Daw controllers strictly aimed at mixing. And also when Axiom Pro's HyperControl, if supported correctly gives you a keyboard controller/mixer for under a grand. For those who want to continue to live in the past and redesign the Faderport into a multi-channel controller. ask yourself this question. Would you be completely 100% happy with it? The answer maybe, no. And this is why. Let's face it, as helpful as the Faderport is, in a sense it is primitive and AlphaTrack and newer products are better solutions. Also updating it would not say a lot about Presonus. I can see the magazine reviews now "Presonus had an opportunity to make a great controller/mixing desk and this is what they came up with". Presonus in my own humble opinion is at a fork in the road now. Go right and stick to what they have been doing, and keep making cost effective items for those who want the world for 199.99. Or go left like they did with StudioLive, ADL 600 and Studio One and completely shock the world. As Jonathan stated earlier, cost effective controllers don't usually sell well and I think they are also look down on by serious engineers. But those that are professionally packaged become loved. To prove this, how many of you would take a SSL Nucleus or Matrix, A Studio Live 24.4.2, a Avid Control Surface, or a even a C24(Love it or hate it) over a FaderPort or a Tascam US-2400. I guess the majority would. Presentation is everything. If Presonus jumps into the dedicated controller market they need to have a great package together. One thing Presonus can learn from Avid, is how presentation is key to a dedicated controller. Their mid priced Control 24s in their heydays and the C24s today are found in many small project and professional studios. Just off of appearance and features they bring clients to most of these studios. We know they are not the best mixing desks on the market, and are dislike by some, but they do display the word professional. Great controllers are not cheap to make, so let's face it a 200.00-1000.00 controller may not be great from a business stand point. Presonus knows this and would not want to do this half assed. Remember the FP10, people were complaining from here to Antarctica because it had issues. So we should push them to continue to innovate like they have with StudioLive and Studio One. And not chase their tail in a circle making the same product over and over. If they do, when they drop a cheap controller, most of you will complain that they didn't deliver. So in my opinion, yes they should make a cheap solution like a Alphatrack for those who can't afford a professional controller, but for those of us who need a professional solution and have to pay bills, in my humble opinion this is what is needed:

1. At least 24 faders(switching through banks is cool, but when mixing for clients, this makes it easier).
2. A full colored LCD screen Centered on the Controller, with small reads on the channels. If not this, at least one a little bigger than StudioLive's
3. A implemented meter bridge. The C24 has a nice one and I think this may be the way to go to keep cost down.
3. Quiet, touch sensitive and motorized faders. Also touch sensitive knobs.
4. External power supplies.
5. No preamps or inputs to keep cost down. But if so, make sure that they are at least XMAX and well implemented.
6. A integrated trackball or jog wheel for easy navigation.
7. Complete control of plugin parameters that have assignable controls
8. Also the ability to work with other DAWs

With all this being said, Presonus first needs to tackle the issue of making Studio One work correctly with present controllers on the market in my opinion. This is just my humble opinion on the matter and I hope I don't offend anyone and if I do I apologize in advance. Thanks.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/01/2012 08:06:16

MR4Y
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madehumble wrote: I think many of us want this and that for a dedicated Studio One Controller, but don't think about it from a business angle. The market is flooded, I mean flooded with keyboard controllers. Even though it is a wish of some of you, it doesn't make sense for Presonus to dive into that market when it hasn't completed it's innovative approach to the DAW market. Especially when Studio One competitors are making Daw controllers strictly aimed at mixing. And also when Axiom Pro's HyperControl, if supported correctly gives you a keyboard controller/mixer for under a grand. For those who want to continue to live in the past and redesign the Faderport into a multi-channel controller. ask yourself this question. Would you be completely 100% happy with it? The answer maybe, no. And this is why. Let's face it, as helpful as the Faderport is, in a sense it is primitive and AlphaTrack and newer products are better solutions.


The Alphatrack might be a better solution, however, it's not supported since S1 v1.x. That's a strange arbitrary choice, as Frontier's Tranzport even has a template in S1 since v1.x.

Also updating it would not say a lot about Presonus. I can see the magazine reviews now "Presonus had an opportunity to make a great controller/mixing desk and this is what they came up with". Presonus in my own humble opinion is at a fork in the road now. Go right and stick to what they have been doing, and keep making cost effective items for those who want the world for 199.99. Or go left like they did with StudioLive, ADL 600 and Studio One and completely shock the world. As Jonathan stated earlier, cost effective controllers don't usually sell well and I think they are also look down on by serious engineers. But those that are professionally packaged become loved. To prove this, how many of you would take a SSL Nucleus or Matrix, A Studio Live 24.4.2, a Avid Control Surface, or a even a C24(Love it or hate it) over a FaderPort or a Tascam US-2400. I guess the majority would.


They don't sell mainly because they're badly marketed and lack primary features. As a example, Korg upgraded their Nano series controllers to the version 2 and didn't made a single video or even gave units for people to do video reviews, instead aiming at making a hour long presentation for their Kronos workstation. Also, your comparison on features is really confusing as all examples you mentioned are entired different and aimed at different purposes, the Matrix being the most expensive USB 2x2 audio interface ever made.


Presentation is everything. If Presonus jumps into the dedicated controller market they need to have a great package together. One thing Presonus can learn from Avid, is how presentation is key to a dedicated controller. Their mid priced Control 24s in their heydays and the C24s today are found in many small project and professional studios. Just off of appearance and features they bring clients to most of these studios. We know they are not the best mixing desks on the market, and are dislike by some, but they do display the word professional. Great controllers are not cheap to make, so let's face it a 200.00-1000.00 controller may not be great from a business stand point. Presonus knows this and would not want to do this half assed. Remember the FP10, people were complaining from here to Antarctica because it had issues.


We had a lot of presentation on their Audiobox VSL line, but keep in mind looks can be deceiving. And what is a great controller to you? Something that's expensive or something that has the right features people want and is reasonably priced?

So we should push them to continue to innovate like they have with StudioLive and Studio One. And not chase their tail in a circle making the same product over and over. If they do, when they drop a cheap controller, most of you will complain that they didn't deliver. So in my opinion, yes they should make a cheap solution like a Alphatrack for those who can't afford a professional controller, but for those of us who need a professional solution and have to pay bills, in my humble opinion this is what is needed:

1. At least 24 faders(switching through banks is cool, but when mixing for clients, this makes it easier).
2. A full colored LCD screen Centered on the Controller, with small reads on the channels. If not this, at least one a little bigger than StudioLive's
3. A implemented meter bridge. The C24 has a nice one and I think this may be the way to go to keep cost down.
3. Quiet, touch sensitive and motorized faders. Also touch sensitive knobs.
4. External power supplies.
5. No preamps or inputs to keep cost down. But if so, make sure that they are at least XMAX and well implemented.
6. A integrated trackball or jog wheel for easy navigation.
7. Complete control of plugin parameters that have assignable controls
8. Also the ability to work with other DAWs

With all this being said, Presonus first needs to tackle the issue of making Studio One work correctly with present controllers on the market in my opinion. This is just my humble opinion on the matter and I hope I don't offend anyone and if I do I apologize in advance. Thanks.


You're requesting pretty much every feature the SSL Matrix has plus other ones. Also, some requests are entirely subjective, specially on plugin controlling as there's no standard for how plugins should present their parameters.
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madehumble
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You stated: The Alphatrack might be a better solution, however, it's not supported since S1 v1.x. That's a strange arbitrary choice, as Frontier's Tranzport even has a template in S1 since v1.x.

You misunderstood not only this part but the whole post. So let me clarify what I am saying. I understand it is not supported, but what I was saying here is that making a multi-channel Faderport would still be a primitive multi-channel DAW controller.

You stated: They don't sell mainly because they're badly marketed and lack primary features. As a example, Korg upgraded their Nano series controllers to the version 2 and didn't made a single video or even gave units for people to do video reviews, instead aiming at making a hour long presentation for their Kronos workstation. Also, your comparison on features is really confusing as all examples you mentioned are entired different and aimed at different purposes, the Matrix being the most expensive USB 2x2 audio interface ever made.

This is what I mean by not thinking from a business standpoint. They don't sell because most cheap controllers are made cheap, lack features, to keep cost down, and are not made for professional studios. They are usually paper weights or bad purchases in the making. Jonathan, even explain to you, that great controllers cannot be made cheaply. I think that a lot of people prefer price over quality but the consumers pays in the long run. One more thing when I use the Matrix example, it was directed to those who would rather a quality mixing desk/DAW controller.

You stated: We had a lot of presentation on their Audiobox VSL line, but keep in mind looks can be deceiving. And what is a great controller to you? Something that's expensive or something that has the right features people want and is reasonably priced?

Once again, since you don't get it, I will say it again, a great DAW controller cannot be made for cheap. This is why I said Presonus should bring out 2 products. One aimed at the lower price market, which would be something like an AlphaTrack but better, with scribble channels, backlit screen, and a nice quiet fader and knobs and also reasonable priced. Then they should also aim for the professional market with a mixing desk/DAW controller type product in the 3000.00-5000.00 range, which is cheaply priced compared to the C24, Yamaha DM2000, and Tascam DM-4800. It can be done at that price because look at the Tascam DM-4800 48 channels for 4999.00 and built in effects and i/os. So from a business stand point that makes sense and Presonus proved it with StudioLive, when they entered that market with a quality mixer.

You quoted me saying:

1. At least 24 faders(switching through banks is cool, but when mixing for clients, this makes it easier).
2. A full colored LCD screen Centered on the Controller, with small reads on the channels. If not this, at least one a little bigger than StudioLive's
3. A implemented meter bridge. The C24 has a nice one and I think this may be the way to go to keep cost down.
3. Quiet, touch sensitive and motorized faders. Also touch sensitive knobs.
4. External power supplies.
5. No preamps or inputs to keep cost down. But if so, make sure that they are at least XMAX and well implemented.
6. A integrated trackball or jog wheel for easy navigation.
7. Complete control of plugin parameters that have assignable controls
8. Also the ability to work with other DAWs

You stated:You're requesting pretty much every feature the SSL Matrix has plus other ones. Also, some requests are entirely subjective, specially on plugin controlling as there's no standard for how plugins should present their parameters.

This is the part that irked me kinda. To answer this here are the Matrix features:

Solid State Logic Matrix Features:
16 SuperAnalogue mono line channels with two separate inputs per strip
32 x 16 x 16 insert router for up to 16 external processing devices
Stereo aux send and 4 mono sends per channel
'Input to Cue Stereo' doubles mixdown channel count
'In Line' DAW monitoring with 'SuperCue' headphone mode
Dual stereo mix busses with summing inserts and reassign
4 stereo returns with full stereo mix bus routing
Stereo digital I/O (S/PDIF, AES/EBU) with SSL converter technology
Stereo monitoring with independent Main and Mini monitor outputs
3 external monitor inputs with source summing
iJack front panel monitor input
Artist Monitor output with independent EQ and monitor source selection
16 motorized faders with multiple layer DAW control
General purpose MIDI controller mode
Additional motorized 'Focus' fader for simultaneous DAW/console control
Programmable function keys for keyboard key strokes/macros
DAW-based MIDI fader automation
Ethernet MIDI connectivity and PC/Mac Browser Interface
Integrate your analog outboard
Ethernet DAW connection - Avoids multiple cables and additional interface boxes
Plug-in & virtual instrument control - Map plug-in parameters to faders, V-pots etc. via MIDI
Control up to 4 DAWs simultaneously, including Logic, Cubase, and Digital Performer
Programmable soft-keys for DAW shortcuts - Rapid access to essential DAW commands (up to 350 per DAW layer)
Full DAW transport control - Punch-friendly controls and navigation wheel

The only thing I ask for, that is comparable to the Matrix, is that it works with other DAWs and controls plugins. It has 16 faders, I ask for 24. It has i/o's I said Presonus should not include them to keep price down but if they do make sure they are quality like the XMAX. It also has no LCD screen , I ask for one. So no I don't want a Matrix part 2 because it cannot be made for under 5000.00. In a way I understand your pain, you want a usable controller for a great price, which I think a lot of users would. But at the same time with Avid people jumping ship, Apple Logic users concerned about where that software is going, me included. This is golden oppurtunity for Presonus to aim for the professional market. I hope that we can agree to disagree. Thanks.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 02/01/2012 22:01:47

twoifbysea
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scottharrell wrote:Is that a drinkholder down there?


I'd prefer a tap.
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MR4Y
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madehumble wrote:
You misunderstood not only this part but the whole post. So let me clarify what I am saying. I understand it is not supported, but what I was saying here is that making a multi-channel Faderport would still be a primitive multi-channel DAW controller.


Ok, both devices are made by the exact same company and work the same way hardware-wise. So what's the point to support one but not the other? Also, keep in mind that the Alphatrack is at the same price point as the Faderport. So this seems more to be a arbitrary choice than support left out for various other reasons.

This is what I mean by not thinking from a business standpoint. They don't sell because most cheap controllers are made cheap, lack features, to keep cost down, and are not made for professional studios. They are usually paper weights or bad purchases in the making. Jonathan, even explain to you, that great controllers cannot be made cheaply. I think that a lot of people prefer price over quality but the consumers pays in the long run. One more thing when I use the Matrix example, it was directed to those who would rather a quality mixing desk/DAW controller.


Yes, most unreasonable people prefer price over quality. That's why Avid hardware is 3 times more expensive than the competitors and having only half the features of some. Nowdays price is not synonimous of quality. And most of the time you get less than what you've payed for.

Once again, since you don't get it, I will say it again, a great DAW controller cannot be made for cheap. This is why I said Presonus should bring out 2 products. One aimed at the lower price market, which would be something like an AlphaTrack but better, with scribble channels, backlit screen, and a nice quiet fader and knobs and also reasonable priced. Then they should also aim for the professional market with a mixing desk/DAW controller type product in the 3000.00-5000.00 range, which is cheaply priced compared to the C24, Yamaha DM2000, and Tascam DM-4800. It can be done at that price because look at the Tascam DM-4800 48 channels for 4999.00 and built in effects and i/os. So from a business stand point that makes sense and Presonus proved it with StudioLive, when they entered that market with a quality mixer.


Keep in mind that Presonus is not as big as the companies you mentioned. For me it's seems they don't want to make a step bigger than their own legs.


The only thing I ask for, that is comparable to the Matrix, is that it works with other DAWs and controls plugins. It has 16 faders, I ask for 24. It has i/o's I said Presonus should not include them to keep price down but if they do make sure they are quality like the XMAX. It also has no LCD screen , I ask for one. So no I don't want a Matrix part 2 because it cannot be made for under 5000.00. In a way I understand your pain, you want a usable controller for a great price, which I think a lot of users would. But at the same time with Avid people jumping ship, Apple Logic users concerned about where that software is going, me included. This is golden oppurtunity for Presonus to aim for the professional market. I hope that we can agree to disagree. Thanks.


Again, there's no standard for how a DAW should control it's plugins, midi etc. Also, I don't get the "jump into the major market" thing. Also, most manufacturer's recent controllers are only aimed to control their DAW's, not being compatible with the competitors. Presonus is almost aimed at the professional market, but not in the same way other old companies are.

Nothing against your opinions or your requests. I agree to disagree, but not to not answer back.
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themuzic
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You guys are quibbling over stupid shit now. To some people a baseball bat makes a great hammer. So all this discussion over what features are more costly and\or worth it really only matters to those that are buying it and how much they are willing to pay. It's all subjective, despite how much companies X sells controller xxx for.

Fact is, Presonus will do something. There's just too much discussion about it not to. So please, by all means, continue the discussion but try to keep the post lengths down to one city block, for those if us ADHD people.

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madehumble
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themuzic wrote:
You guys are quibbling over stupid shit now. To some people a baseball bat makes a great hammer. So all this discussion over what features are more costly and\or worth it really only matters to those that are buying it and how much they are willing to pay. It's all subjective, despite how much companies X sells controller xxx for.

Fact is, Presonus will do something. There's just too much discussion about it not to. So please, by all means, continue the discussion but try to keep the post lengths down to one city block, for those if us ADHD people.


I agree. I gave my points, I'm through with it. But I really feel the guy above is trying to justify what he doesn't want, by downplaying other peoples needs. I wish him the best.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/01/2012 03:04:26

revengineer
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ok, here's a bump.

Jonathon and everyone at product dev at Presonus I'll start by saying great effing job with studio one -2. I've finally been able to ditch PT without a qualm. As far as controllers go I'll lend my tuppence towards a 16-24 motorized fader, non-I/O desktop board with a limited version of the fat channel architecture a la the SL 16.4.2 and 24.4.2 boards. I'm old school from the analog board days and would gladly pay 3 grand for a high quality mixing console.
meter bridge = +
Plug in visualization = +

Ideally you'd just slap 100mm motorized faders on the 24.4.2 and ensure it's fully integrated with StudioOne - offer a model without the software cause I already have it. I want automated fader production capability. It'd be frakking bitching to be able use the same board live, but I really, really want an old school board feel for mixing.

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I was sooo surprised when I found out StudioLive isn't integrated w/ S1. lol

It was on my "5 year gear" list up until that discovery. It immediately came off. That would've been my "Look mom, I'm a bigtime producer" board. haha
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