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Suggestions for StudioLive 32.
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moby
Prenoob
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Joined: 22/03/2012 10:28:42
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Top of my wishlist would be a Cobranet port (but that's just because I have a small mountain of Mediamatrix CAB boxes lying around just screaming to be repurposed into a digisnake). And colour assignable fader knobs in VSL. And linkability between master and SUB4 (for aux fed sub emulation). And an option of better quality faders at appropriate extra cost (Alps "K" series perhaps) - losing count of the number of faders I have replaced.
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swdamps
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Joined: 19/05/2011 16:03:42
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everyone uses there console in different ways and there needs are all different, what frustrates me is the lack of common sense operation that some of these companys build into thier consoles. take the yamahas, why do they think that 8 faders is enough to adjust your graphic. wouldn`t it make much more sense to have 32 faders all in a row that come up with your whole EQ curve. When i have a spike in my monitor sends i need to get to it quick, not to mention a bunch of other things that are hard to get to, an this is a $30,000 dollar console. The new Midas Pro 2 has 3 knobs for your EQ adjustment and you have to press buttons to get to the band you want. Like an LS9. All that real estate and they can`t even give you a full channel strip, and its $30,000, and no touch screen WTF is that. i`m sure it`s quality and sound is amazing but no good to me if i can`t work it quick.
The Studiolive is the easiest console i have seen to use. (And i have used quite a lot of them) Most of it displays common sense in it`s operation and combined with the VSL and ipad software pretty much everything is easy to get to. However it does lack a few of the more "pro" options and has its limitations.
For me a desk with 2 sets of motorized faders allows you to make adjustments to things and still have access to your mix., a complete channel strip and touch screen a master section and some softpatch buttons should allow control for pretty much anything. it also should be compact.
if Presonus is to build a more professional console and approach it with the same ease of operation as they have with the Studiolive i would happily pay $10 to !5 grand for it. and if they can do the Studiolive for the price they have it really shouldn`t be any more than that.
samuel2230
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Joined: 15/05/2011 15:25:49
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To Yamaha's defense the LS9/M7 both have 1 fader per input and that has been a big selling point for them. I'd agree about the Pro2, but thats one console and most consoles From Digico / Avid / Soundcraft / Allen Heath all have full channel strips. Pro2 is definitely in the minority on that issue. Most consoles also totally give you 15 faders minimum for graphic EQ - Yamaha included.

I'd say that the Allen Heath GLD fulfills every desire I'd have for a new Presonus desk... except for the price! Recallable headamps, one physical control per parameter and a clean simple hardware interface, big touchscreen, digital snake with 24 inputs easily expanded to 48 after-purchase, tons of outputs similarly expandable, AVIOM support out-of-the-box, expansion cards for Cobranet, Dante, Waves and more, 8 FX processors, flying faders with a master section, VCAs, groups, and LCDs above every channel for color coding and naming.

What more can you ask for except the price tag? Allen Heath GLD is THE console to beat for Presonus IMO.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 08/05/2012 00:45:50

samuel2230
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swdamps wrote:
if Presonus is to build a more professional console and approach it with the same ease of operation as they have with the Studiolive i would happily pay $10 to !5 grand for it. and if they can do the Studiolive for the price they have it really shouldn`t be any more than that.


If the 10K price is ok with you, why not go with the GLD? I'm curious if there is something specific about it that you dislike or it doesn't have.
swdamps
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Joined: 19/05/2011 16:03:42
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i was so looking forward to the release of the GLD as i thought it was the one for me, nice and compact and all the good stuff, however after having a play with it , it seemed just like most digital consoles, very confusing and hard to get places in a short amount of time. so for me it was dissapointing. i know the quality and sound are fine but the operation was the problem for me.
i`m not working for Bon Jovi where things are perfect and money is no object, i work in the real world where things need to be versitile, compact, quick and easy.
There are so many consoles availiable these days but none of them have the ease of use that the Presonus has. They all have some amazing things in them and to some they are just perfect. i personally hate the fact that you only have a limited amount of faders to do so many things all at the same time.
the good thing with the presonus is that all of your adjustments are made with the encoders above the mix faders and this leaves your mix faders to do what you want at any time.
try getting to channel 30 and adjusting your mix and EQ while there is a bit of 6.3 taking off in send 3. see how many layers and buttons you have to push just to get there, thats is of course if you even know where you are with all the faders flying around everywhere. with the presonus you mix sits there all the time and most adjustments can be made with 1 button push and your there.
what i would like to see is a 32 chan layout with 2 sets of motorized faders. one for your mix and possibly 2 layers, and one for all your aux, FX, EQ ect. imagine the whole 31 bands coming up. you can see the whole curve straight up no layers no touch screens ect just the eq as you would normally see it and still have access to your mix. A touch screen for all FX, meters and whatever, a full channel strip (not half of the adjustments) ect, ect.
The problem with the current presonus is that its doesn`t have all the bells and whistles but i am sure if they make a more pro console in the 10K range and keep the same approach i would certainly buy one.
The other thing i cant get my head around is how do presonus make a 24 channel console so small yet if you asked Midas to do one it would be the size of my shed. why do they need so much real estate on these things?
anyway hope you get where i`m comin from, think i`ve said enough for now. please excuse all my spelling mistakes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/05/2012 15:34:45

gadget69
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I understand where your coming from, but the physical size of doing what you are proposing is what kills that idea...Look at the M7CL..and that console only has the 1 fader per channel and the rest is still layer upon layer of nested menu's.

Ya $10 grand for a weekend warrior band or even the local sound guy is just not do-able in this market. We tried out the Soundcraft Si and REALLY didn't care for that one...
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samuel2230
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I guess YMMV because I found the GLD to be very intuitive and quick to get around on. Embrace the world of paging! I didn't think I'd be able to but after getting some serious board time on a Digico SD8-24 these last few months, which has 2 banks of 12 faders and a touchscreen, I've found that if you just put in the time you can *replace* your analog intuition with digital intuition. Ones paging become as second nature vertical channel strips, you might even find yourself being a little pokey on an analog or small format digital like the Presonus. At least, thats how things have been with me, maybe its just me....
mepstein
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Joined: 23/03/2011 23:22:52
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samuel2230 wrote:Ones paging become as second nature vertical channel strips, you might even find yourself being a little pokey on an analog or small format digital like the Presonus. At least, thats how things have been with me, maybe its just me....

I think it is just you.
Everything is a trade-off. For me, nothing is more important than being able to see as much information about everything without having to touch anything. And if I do have to touch something, the fewer things I have to do to get from point a to point b, the better.

To that end:
  • I wouldn't mind using the faders as my graphic EQ, because in my mind, the GEQ gets set once and left alone while I'm mixing.

  • Motorized faders are cool, but unless they are going to be super quiet, don't bother. Having seen some videos posted here of I think 8 chattering faders, I can't imagine the din of 32. I think I would be very satisfied with the implementation of Soft Take Over described in http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/22678.page, specifically the operation SwitchBack describes and the indicators that Mike Rivers describes. If Soft Take Over is implemented well, motorized faders and their associated cost could be completely unnecessary.

  • And more single-function meters.

  • My wishlist would also include at least 16 channels of digital snake, CobraNet being my preference.
    swdamps
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    Joined: 19/05/2011 16:03:42
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    a 32 channel Presonus wouldn`t be that much bigger than the 24 really. the way the 24 is layed out is pretty compact and very workable and i can get it in my car on my own. cant say that for a midas or most other brands. Yamaha LS9 has 32 faders and its not that big and has plenty of room left on it for a more practical layout.
    even a 16 channel that can be linked would be great, much like they do now.
    my biggest problem is that one day i`m doin a cover band in some shitty little pub and the next i`m doing an outdoor gig with a decent size rig. i dont want or can afford to have different consoles for different situations. i have 2 of the 16 channel Presonus and one 24 and they will handle pretty much any situation i have. i just wish it had a few more pro features on it.
    don`t get me wrong here i`m not bagging every other desk. there are some fantastic consoles out there. i just like the prcticality of the presonus.
    MikeRivers
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    Joined: 28/07/2010 15:44:52
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    samuel2230 wrote:I guess YMMV because I found the GLD to be very intuitive and quick to get around on. Embrace the world of paging!
    Ones paging become as second nature vertical channel strips, you might even find yourself being a little pokey on an analog or small format digital like the Presonus. At least, thats how things have been with me, maybe its just me....


    I have to agree with swdamps here. I never had the chance to actually mix on a GLD, but I played around with it quite a bit at a NAMM press briefing (which also included free beer). Pages is OK when setting up, particularly if you have a head start and have laid out the board with your input list. But I find that when working with a dynamic program, particularly a festival where you're working with a new group that you've never heard before, with another one every 40 minutes or so, it's just too much button pushing or wheel scrolling. And that's nearly all I do when it comes to live sound.

    While I might get bored with the music, sometimes I think that working with the same band doing the same songs night after night would be a really relaxing experience for me. But then, what keeps me listening to the music is the fact that I can almost always make it sound better than it did when I pushed up the faders and only about 3/4 of them were on the channels that I expected them to be on (good free help is hard to find).

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    samuel2230
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    What about a 48 input 24 output Studiolive with VCAs?

    I used a Digico SD8-24 for monitors all the time. 8 mixes minimum, 48 inputs on the stage box, 24 faders. Its a new club and I've yet to work with the same artist twice, everything is new and I still love love it. Routing bad inputs to the right places, or moving processing to inputs is all something I can do very fast. Faders are as quiet as can be and lighting fast... and its not like its only me buying these things.

    Sends on fader is crucial to my monitor workflow with that many mixers. This is something no one seems to mention.

    I use Presonus boards all the time - I recommend them! But, I just don't think its true that they stand up to these <$20,000 boards, or that their interface model is would work for that class of board. And, I don't think they should, I wouldn't expect that of them. They sound good, but you can't even try to compare the presonus comps / EQs to the Digico SD11. Isn't sound still important these days? Again - I am not getting down on the Presonus... its the best $2000/$3200 board you can buy.

    For <$5k I am sold on the Presonus. But for $15k? I'll race you through a sound check on a SD8 any day haha. I definitely meant YMMV pretty seriously, this stuff is all subjective. But, I really don't think I am alone on this. The Soundcraft Vi, Digico SD... people actually like these things besides me! Even for non-touring work.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/05/2012 06:22:10

    MikeRivers
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    samuel2230 wrote:What about a 48 input 24 output Studiolive with VCAs?


    Yeah, what about it? Why should PreSonus make something like this when there are already several other mixers on the market with that capability? The StudioLive in its present configuration, and maybe if extended to 32 faders, and maybe if moving faders were available as a factory option (not likely to be a retrofit), fills a niche that's only been tickled at by Behringer with their X32 still MIA. I'd rather see the company enhance what they have than go into territory where there's already several products and the most likely way they could compete is on price. People who buy large format consoles tend to not worry so much about cost and more about stability, reliability, and long life cycle.

    Personally, I'm dreaming of a more studio-oriented model, perhaps to compete with the Allen & Heath GS-R24. That wouldn't be too big of a leap from where they are now.
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    samuel2230
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    I only mentioned that because you didn't like the interface of the GLD as compared to the Presonus, but I think many of the aspects you didn't like we're necessary to make a desk with those specs, and that the Presonus interface style can only handle a certain level of features. GLD is 48 inputs and VCAs. I don't think there would be any point in releasing a Presonus console for like 10k with all those features but the same interface.

    I guess I'm just disagreeing with everyone for some reason on this thread. In addition to frequently using Presonus gear, I own an Si Compact. Really like it.
    samuel2230
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    Big price drop on the Si Compact to compete with the GLD. $6500 on sweetwater for the 24 channel and $7500 for the 32 channel. Thought this might be of interest in this thread.
    tamezjos1
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    Joined: 10/12/2010 08:26:25
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    32 Motorized Faders
    Min 12 -31 band EQ's
    Pre/Post EQ selector for AUX sends per channel.
    Complete FAT Channel - Expanded from the SL24 (like - 5 parametric bands)
    Recallable PreAmps
    Recallable Aux masters (16 Total, 12 Aux Sends and 4 FX Channels)
    8 Bus Groups - Motorized
    One multiband compressor on Main Mix.
    Per Channel input monitoring (LEDs)
    THUNDERBOLT I/O to make 32 channel Recording while Running everything from an iPad Possible.

    Expandable to 64 Ch - Bank B on Motorized Faders and external box.
    Expandable Digital Snake.

    I can live without a touchscreen, per channel LCD for name display, etc... (to keep cost down)

    Oh... and make it under $7.5k
     
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