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32.4.2AI... DUDE!!
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roblof
Presonoid
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Joined: 12/04/2011 21:33:08
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The motorized faders on my yamaha 02r are still working without a hitch and that console is at least 17yrs old!

Granted, it doesn't get used very often nowdays

The Dante option isn't scheduled for release until late 2013 so this means that most people wanting to buy the sl32 to use Dante will buy it as a combo at the time it exist so potentially sales may be slow until then?
Behringer x32 with Dante, x32-rack, s16 stagebox, p16 monitor system, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, M-Audio FastTrack Pro, Studio One Pro v2, NI Komplete 5-8 Ultimate, Cubase 4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Yamaha 02r.....
Unclejambo
Presonic

Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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samuel2230 wrote:PS - They are definitely not going to add more subs by any weird channel eating thing Maybe it'd work but it'd be super confusing without flying faders, and ease of use is their big stand on this product. No way.


The man's got a point, the 4 stereo subs suggestion has been made a million times for the SL24...
Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
sania4
Prenoob

Joined: 13/04/2011 02:12:42
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mepstein wrote:Just curious, what if there were "soft" subs, assignable and adjustable only via VSL. Particularly if they'd give VSL docking windows.

Assuming it's doable, does that satisfy any of the need for more subs? I know in my case it would, but I have VSL open almost all the time.


I think that would be the best and easiest "add more subs" solution, that way you can have all of your 32 channels and 5-8 or all 8 subgroups on the ipad, although I doubt its gonna happen since it will look kind of lame and unprofessional.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/02/2013 19:13:39

jakejam
Presonic
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Joined: 20/10/2010 04:40:02
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I suppose a workaround for current boards COULD be just a simple firmware assign function (like the copy FAT) wherein you could select Ch 1,3,4,6,7 and assign them to channel 32. Then, it could be just a simple "Solo/Select" function. For instance:

1) Push "Solo" on channels (1,3,4,6,13)
2) Push "Select" on destination channel (Soft Sub or Hard Sub)

Then again, we're back to Samuel's "Channel eating" statement.... But that's ok, IMHO, because if you didn't want the bizarre weirdness of having soft-subs, then nobody's twisting your arm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/02/2013 19:55:10

JAKE JACOBS

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sania4
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Did presonus ever said why it is not possible to make current 4 mono subs into 4 stereo subs, the pan knob is there so why not make it work on subs, I just want to know if there is a hardware/software issue to make it work, plus it was asked alot for SL24.

If it is possible they can call it Studiolive 32.4S.2

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/02/2013 05:00:48

jakejam
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Hardware. I believe the SUB OUTS are wired TS and not TRS.
JAKE JACOBS

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gadget69
Presonificator
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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Hmmm .. the 16.4.2 is set up as 6 mono or 3 stereo, and the 24.4.2 is set up as 10 mono or 5 stereo mixes???
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sania4
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Joined: 13/04/2011 02:12:42
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gadget69 wrote:Hmmm .. the 16.4.2 is set up as 6 mono or 3 stereo, and the 24.4.2 is set up as 10 mono or 5 stereo mixes???

sorry but we are talking about subgroups, not aux sends.
sania4
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jakejam wrote:Hardware. I believe the SUB OUTS are wired TS and not TRS.


if thats the only issue, I bet alot of people would be happy to have option of choosing mono or stereo subgroups somewhere in the setup menu but having mono direct out in the back of the board. I think there are more reasons then the sub outs being TS, if that I assume they would have done it on SL24 already, but who knows.
knerr
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Joined: 16/11/2010 20:21:29
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jakejam wrote:Hardware. I believe the SUB OUTS are wired TS and not TRS.

They are balanced TRS, but I doubt they could be made stereo, nonetheless. I think the best you could hope for is being able to pass the stereo sub mix to the main mix.
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Unclejambo
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Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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knerr wrote:
jakejam wrote:Hardware. I believe the SUB OUTS are wired TS and not TRS.

They are balanced TRS, but I doubt they could be made stereo, nonetheless. I think the best you could hope for is being able to pass the stereo sub mix to the main mix.


I think when this was previously suggested, that's exactly what was understood about the physical output but, as you mentioned, people were more interested in having stereo subs to pass to mains.... never happened, nor was it explained that it couldn't happen if that's the case.

Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
Josjor
Presonic

Joined: 18/05/2011 16:55:27
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I must be in the extreme minority. Granted, I'm not a huge provider, but I've run my fair share of festivals and concerts in twenty years. And I almost never (really) run in stereo for live sound. Technically, I'm hooked up in stereo, but it's basically operated in dual-mono. I mean, lets face it: for a majority of bar gigs, outdoor festivals, and even concert halls, the audio-gasmic qualities of a stereo mix are going to be lost on the vast majority of your audience.

Fact.

The few things that I actually put in the mix in stereo I simply route to the mains because it's usually only one or two things.........and those I pan very lightly because...............LETS FACE IT: THE AUDIO-GASMIC QUALITIES OF A STEREO MIX ARE GOING TO BE LOST ON A VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR AUDIENCE!

What's that mean? Well, it means that you can usually get by quite well without a huge number of subgroups.

I'm also curios as to the references to "competitors product that blows this away for a fraction of the cost." Exactly what mixer are you referring to? Be specific and make sure to include the non-material items such as product support/education resources and reliability history. Ain't going to find anything close to Presonus in these departments from the Behry Boys.

I think the naysayers need to step back and take a look at the market as a whole. Sorry, but the big boys (with a few exceptions) are going to be using mixers that cost anywhere from 2 to 10 times the price of this mixer. I personally think that Presonus has the ability to make mixers for that market if they wanted to. That's not their market for these boards. Their market with this mixer is to consumers that want the main benefits of a digital console in a package that's still affordable and user friendly. If I wanted things like gobs of subgroups, flying faders, and nearly unlimited routing, I'd spend $10k and up. I'd also most likely never get that mixer because I'd never be able to afford it or justify it's expense for the work I do. As it is, I'll spend $4k and get the really important benefits of a digital mixer and sacrifice some of the extra's.

Finally, just so you can have some idea of my perspective, I'll tell you that I'm a music store owner that sells everything from the cheapest 6 channel $89.00 mixer up to the $10k boards and sells systems for everything from garage bands to larger church installs. On the personal side of it I provide sound for everything from two-piece acoustic coffee house groups to festivals up to about 800 people. I'm a happy Presonus user, but I'm not a one-woman-man and love and sell a variety of brands. I'm not a Presonus kool-aid drinker, but rather just someone who is trying to lend some real-world perspective to the issues brought up here.
Unclejambo
Presonic

Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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Audio gasmic? Stereo has been used in some form from as early as 1881... in terms of recorded sound, it's very much the industry standard and has been for many years. I'm certain that gig goers are capable of appreciating as much.. they have two ears.

I mix almost exclusively in stereo... an electronic act I tour with runs into double figures with tracks that rely heavily on stereo imagery. Granted in far wider venue's/festival fields, I'll tighten up that stereo field but I'm still capable of giving even coverage for all areas of the venue but also making use of stereo imagery for those that are in a good position to hear both sides of the mix.

"If I wanted things like gobs of subgroups, flying faders, and nearly unlimited routing, I'd spend $10k and up."

You don't need to.. the behringer desk is a little over £2000 uk.... thats not too much more than the far less feature laden SL24 and a shade or 2 less than the (hopefully only proposed... can they really have spent money producing this non-product?) SL32.

I think the defenders are missing the point. I love my SL24... but it's already been infinitely surpassed in terms of functionality and value for money, by the x32. This is the desk that presonus needed to at least rival with their new release. Should the venue mine sits in ever start requiring a desk with more inputs then I'm sorry, but there's just no incentive to pay more for a far less featured board.

If the SL32 were in a similar physical footprint, had flying faders, recallable gain, as many groups, dcas, outputs and were at a similar pricepoint to the x32... I'd go presonus, hands down.. but they're not. They're worlds apart.

In so far as reliability, customer support etc.. behringer (uli himself apparently even) have been all over the forums, dealing with any teething problems and taking public opinion on board to the extent that many of the features suggested have cropped up in this years releases at NAMM.




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 03/02/2013 14:28:49

Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
Josjor
Presonic

Joined: 18/05/2011 16:55:27
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I never said that stereo didn't have a purpose or that it wasn't the standard in recorded audio. What I said was that in a majority of bar gigs........and most gigs anywhere, the true beauty of stereo (particularly any wide-panning) is lost on a majority of your audience. Every time you double the distance from the source, you half the volume. That's the law and it can't be broken. That nice wide pan on the pingpong delay and the keys sounds outstanding if you're close to equidistant from the left and right speakers. If you're not (like 70% of the audience in 90% of venues) then it doesn't sound outstanding. 70% of the audience is missing 50% of the show.

I'm surprised Uli can find time to visit the forums, what with all his court hearings.

If the Behry is indeed the board that several have referred to as blowing Presonus out of the water, then I would encourage them to just do some searches on reliability from that manufacturer. I know several dealers that report up to 60% failure rates on some items.
Unclejambo
Presonic

Joined: 30/01/2012 00:35:12
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The fact is, that the majority of people do pan. I guess no one would notice if the SL series shipped without the ability to do so eh? All that aside, back to the case of this particular act, were I mixing them mono, there are enough clusters of tracks that require either DCA assignment or (preferably for dynamic processings sake) grouping that 8 subs is still closer to the number I'd consider useful on a 32 channel desk.

Behringer have been responsible for some truly awful products over the years. They're also responsible for some great ones (ep power amp range) which people would be foolish to overlook by association alone. Seems like the latter is increasingly being considered the case by those initial brave adopters of the x32. The first time I laid hands on one it was replacing a digidesign venue sc48 with a blown power supply.. I know which I prefer but the berry was anything but the disappointment I had expected and the house engineer who'd spent far more time on it seemed elated with it and keen to witness my own response.

I'd say the opposite is happening on this forum. People are fawning over a real non-product through love for their previous offerings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/02/2013 15:04:23

Jamie-Lee Warlow - Front Of House/Tour Manager/Driver

email:info@jamie-foh.com
web: www.jamie-foh.com

Head Engineer - Hobos Music Venue
House Engineer - Clwb Ifor Bach

UK/EU/US Tour and Festival Experience with:
Man Without Country
Royal Canoe
Karin Park
Drenge
The Boy Royals
Caesars Rome
 
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