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Assigning Heaphones with 16.4.2 and HP60
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highdefinitionstudios
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I have a SL 16.4.2 a Presonus HP60 headphone amp and am using the Studio One Pro software. My problem is this. I haven't found a concise step by step guide or video to assigning my headphone to each channel on the HP 60. How do I know what channels the heaphone are going to? Can someone give me a step by step please? Also I understand on the I/O output part about creating seperate headphon mixes but notice that on the studio one pro the channels for headphone mix are showing up on all 16 channels hen I actuall only need them to be grouped for each player ... i.e. I need all the drums to go to one headphone channel instead of having to adjust each tom , BD, HH ect. I am thinking this is accomplished by assigning all the drums to one subgroup but haven't figured that out either. Thanks for the help.
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kibo
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im really not an expert on this but im thinking that with HP60 you use your AUX sends from the SL1642 to the corresponding inputs. then assign your mix to each aux's.
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highdefinitionstudios
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kibo wrote:im really not an expert on this but im thinking that with HP60 you use your AUX sends from the SL1642 to the corresponding inputs. then assign your mix to each aux's.


I can kinda see that. I bought the cable it takes to put the Line outs (1-9) and plugged the appropriate cable 1-6 from each channel of the board into the HP60. However I don't think I have the seperation in the HP60 from channel to channel. I plugged a guitar into the SL on channel 1 and played listening to channel 1 headphones on the HP60. I get the same sound from the guitar on every channel of the HP60 wether my headphones are plugged into channel 1 or 6 of the HP 60. Is this normal? I mean isn't each channel supposed to here only the intrument assigned to it ie, Bass channel 1, guitar channel 2, VOX channel 3 and so on with the ability to put the "MIX" blended in with it?
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hsfinlayson
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Here's how I have used it in the past:

I setup my SL & HP60 to be a "more me" setup, where everyone hears a base stereo mix, but can boost any individual channel(s) they desire within their headphone mix. Obviously, one must start by having a good "mix" of the entire band into the mains. THIS METHOD DOES NOT WORK WELL if you are not feeding everything out through the mains. This soultion assumes every channel is in the mix. You CAN make it work, but that's another reply for another time.

*I am not at my studio, so forgive my use of incorrect names or terminology on the gear.

I took a stereo feed from the SL outputs and ran them into either MixA or MixB of the HP60. This signal gets added to each of the HP60 mixes if so desired. So, we now have the "base" stereo mix available to all musicians.

Next, I connect each physical AUX output to the corresponding HP60 INDIVIDUAL input for each of its channels... so AUX1 out into HP60 Ch1 input. AUX2 out into HP60 Ch2 input... and so-on.

So now, each of the HP60 channels has a dedicated (mono) AUX-Send from the SL mixer.

You can now give every HP60 channel a mix of the ENTIRE Mix + whatever you add to their dedicated AUX send. So your singer might want the whole mix plus a major boost in just his vocal and slight boost in backing vocals... The bass player might want you to boost his bass and the kick drum... etc. etc... you can do whatever you want at that point.

hopefully, that made sense.

-

You CAN just go ahead and create every user's mix from scratch using the AUX-sends and NOT using a stereo base mix... it's just more complex to make global adjustments and the entire mix would be mono... unless you decided to pair-off your AUX'es into stereo (giving you 1/2 the mixes available).
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highdefinitionstudios
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hsfinlayson wrote:Here's how I have used it in the past:

I setup my SL & HP60 to be a "more me" setup, where everyone hears a base stereo mix, but can boost any individual channel(s) they desire within their headphone mix. Obviously, one must start by having a good "mix" of the entire band into the mains. THIS METHOD DOES NOT WORK WELL if you are not feeding everything out through the mains. This soultion assumes every channel is in the mix. You CAN make it work, but that's another reply for another time.

*I am not at my studio, so forgive my use of incorrect names or terminology on the gear.

I took a stereo feed from the SL outputs and ran them into either MixA or MixB of the HP60. This signal gets added to each of the HP60 mixes if so desired. So, we now have the "base" stereo mix available to all musicians.

Next, I connect each physical AUX output to the corresponding HP60 INDIVIDUAL input for each of its channels... so AUX1 out into HP60 Ch1 input. AUX2 out into HP60 Ch2 input... and so-on.

So now, each of the HP60 channels has a dedicated (mono) AUX-Send from the SL mixer.

You can now give every HP60 channel a mix of the ENTIRE Mix + whatever you add to their dedicated AUX send. So your singer might want the whole mix plus a major boost in just his vocal and slight boost in backing vocals... The bass player might want you to boost his bass and the kick drum... etc. etc... you can do whatever you want at that point.

hopefully, that made sense.

-

You CAN just go ahead and create every user's mix from scratch using the AUX-sends and NOT using a stereo base mix... it's just more complex to make global adjustments and the entire mix would be mono... unless you decided to pair-off your AUX'es into stereo (giving you 1/2 the mixes available).


Ok I will give this a try and see how it goes. Back to you later on the outcome and TYVM!
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MikeRivers
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highdefinitionstudios wrote:
I bought the cable it takes to put the Line outs (1-9) and plugged the appropriate cable 1-6 from each channel of the board into the HP60.


Line Outs 1-9? Are you talking about the Direct Outs 1-8 (and 9-16 on another DB25 connector)? You would normally use Aux Outs 1-6 for your headphone mixes. Those use ordinary "guitar" cables" or balanced 1/4" TRS cables if you want to get fancy.


However I don't think I have the seperation in the HP60 from channel to channel. I plugged a guitar into the SL on channel 1 and played listening to channel 1 headphones on the HP60. I get the same sound from the guitar on every channel of the HP60 wether my headphones are plugged into channel 1 or 6 of the HP 60. Is this normal?


You may be misunderstanding the relationship between mixer channels (1-16) and Auxiliary Outputs (1-6) Also, the HP60 may not be doing exactly what you expect it to be doing. No thanks to PreSonus' lousy graphic resolution in their manuals and the shortage of block diagrams (grumble, grumble, grumble) I can't tell for sure just what the HP60 does, but here's what I can dope out.

There are two stereo inputs that feed all six headphone amplifier sections. Typically one would be a reasonably well balanced stereo mix. The other might be a click track, or a reverb return. In addition to those two stereo inputs, there one additional input for each of the six headphone amplifier sections. This would typically be "more me" and could be fed from the Direct outputs (the DB25 connectors). But if you're feeding the headphones from Auxiliary outputs, which is a pretty good idea, you'll want to connect the Aux outputs to those individual "external" inputs.

Each channel can send an output to any or all of the six auxiliary outputs. The volume of that channel in the auxiliary output is determined by the setting of the Aux level when the channel is selected. Normally select Aux 1 and adjust the Aux levels of each of the channels so that the guitar player (with his phones plugged into Headphone Output 1 on the HP60) gets the mix he wants to hear, If his guitar is plugged into Channel 1 on the mixer, obviously he'll want to hear that in the headphones, so you'll turn up Channel 1 in the Aux 1 mix. If he also sings, and say his vocal mic is plugged into Channel 11, you'll want to turn up Channel 11 in the Aux 1 mix as well. But suppose he doesn't want to hear the keyboard that's plugged into Channels 5-6, so you turn those levels all the way down in the Aux 1 mix. And if he wants to hear only a little of the bass in his headphones, turn that channel up, but not as much as his vocal channel.
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highdefinitionstudios
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MikeRivers wrote:
highdefinitionstudios wrote:
I bought the cable it takes to put the Line outs (1-9) and plugged the appropriate cable 1-6 from each channel of the board into the HP60.


Line Outs 1-9? Are you talking about the Direct Outs 1-8 (and 9-16 on another DB25 connector)? You would normally use Aux Outs 1-6 for your headphone mixes. Those use ordinary "guitar" cables" or balanced 1/4" TRS cables if you want to get fancy.


However I don't think I have the seperation in the HP60 from channel to channel. I plugged a guitar into the SL on channel 1 and played listening to channel 1 headphones on the HP60. I get the same sound from the guitar on every channel of the HP60 wether my headphones are plugged into channel 1 or 6 of the HP 60. Is this normal?


You may be misunderstanding the relationship between mixer channels (1-16) and Auxiliary Outputs (1-6) Also, the HP60 may not be doing exactly what you expect it to be doing. No thanks to PreSonus' lousy graphic resolution in their manuals and the shortage of block diagrams (grumble, grumble, grumble) I can't tell for sure just what the HP60 does, but here's what I can dope out.

There are two stereo inputs that feed all six headphone amplifier sections. Typically one would be a reasonably well balanced stereo mix. The other might be a click track, or a reverb return. In addition to those two stereo inputs, there one additional input for each of the six headphone amplifier sections. This would typically be "more me" and could be fed from the Direct outputs (the DB25 connectors). But if you're feeding the headphones from Auxiliary outputs, which is a pretty good idea, you'll want to connect the Aux outputs to those individual "external" inputs.

Each channel can send an output to any or all of the six auxiliary outputs. The volume of that channel in the auxiliary output is determined by the setting of the Aux level when the channel is selected. Normally select Aux 1 and adjust the Aux levels of each of the channels so that the guitar player (with his phones plugged into Headphone Output 1 on the HP60) gets the mix he wants to hear, If his guitar is plugged into Channel 1 on the mixer, obviously he'll want to hear that in the headphones, so you'll turn up Channel 1 in the Aux 1 mix. If he also sings, and say his vocal mic is plugged into Channel 11, you'll want to turn up Channel 11 in the Aux 1 mix as well. But suppose he doesn't want to hear the keyboard that's plugged into Channels 5-6, so you turn those levels all the way down in the Aux 1 mix. And if he wants to hear only a little of the bass in his headphones, turn that channel up, but not as much as his vocal channel.


Yes Thanks for the correction I was talking about the direct outs 1-8. I have the DB25 connectors for channels 1-8 in the back of the board and am using cables 1-6 part to feed each channel 1-6 on the hp 60,. SO I understand setting the AUX level to each channel however are you saying that for instance in my Studio One Pro software that I need to go into the I/O setup and assign each track a player is on at a specific level and directe this to each channel of the hp60? If so , can you explain to me that procedure? I do see that I have the ability to create individual headphone mixes by creating stereo pairs in the output section of the I/O and clicking the CUE MIX box next to each of them, which in turn creates a headphone control slot on the studio one pro mixer board. I also see i can slide each players mix around to adjust levels. However I see nothing stating where exactly these mixes are routed to as they show up on every single channel on the mixer. I was under the impression that each player mix should only go to the channels they are using, however each player headphone mix i created shows up on every channel whether it is in use or not for the session. ( For example in my mind I should have one headphone setup on these channels only 1 for the bass player, 1 for the drummers sub group, 1 for the guitar player, 1 for the singer. I see the Headphone mixes with each players names on it going to all channels on the mixer) They could be going to any or all channels in the HP 60 as far as I know. Nothing is concise in that department. Thanks for your patience!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/04/2011 22:29:19

Cary Davis-Owner/Fat Dog Studios/Henrietta,Tx.

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highdefinitionstudios wrote:
I was talking about the direct outs 1-8. I have the DB25 connectors for channels 1-8 in the back of the board and am using cables 1-6 part to feed each channel 1-6 on the hp 60,.


Just to be clear - those are individual channel outputs. If you have a singer's mic plugged into Channel 1, you'll get only the singer coming out the Channel 1 Direct Output, not a mix of anything. The only place this is useful with your headphone amplifier is if you send an overall mix to all of the six phones, and use the direct outputs to add "more me" to each of the six channels. But if you have a singer who plays guitar, he couldn't get more of his voice and more of his guitar in his headphones, just one or the other.


SO I understand setting the AUX level to each channel however are you saying that for instance in my Studio One Pro software that I need to go into the I/O setup and assign each track a player is on at a specific level and directe this to each channel of the hp60?


It depends on where in the recording process you are. You may have to make some routing changes along the way. When you're recording basic tracks, that is when the band is playing without listening to playback from the computer, you will want to send the mic/line inputs that you're recording to the Aux buses and make up your headphone mixes that way. If you need six mixes, they'll have to be mono, not stereo, since that's what your headphone amplifier can accommodate. In this case, the Firewire button on the individual channels would be up, so the input signal and not the recorded track goes through the channel path.

When you're overdubbing, you have a couple of choices. You can create a mix of the recorded tracks in Studio One, send that back to the console on a pair of input channels (not the stereo Firewire playback output), and make your headphone mix from those two channels (with the Firewire button pressed) and the mic the the person recording is using (with the Firewire button up).

Another approach is to assign each track in Studio One to its own StudioLive input channel, send those back to the mixer, and use the Aux Send controls on those channels, plus the the channel you're using for recording, to create your headphone mix. If you're building up a lot of tracks, eventually you'll run out of mixer channels you can use, so you'll need to make sub-mixes in Studio One and send those to StudioLive channels.

What you're looking at isn't simple. You just have to study the manual, crummy as it is, watch the videos (better), and experiment. There's no one set way to do this, and you need to find a way that you understand, and that works with what you're doing.


I do see that I have the ability to create individual headphone mixes by creating stereo pairs in the output section of the I/O and clicking the CUE MIX box next to each of them, which in turn creates a headphone control slot on the studio one pro mixer board. I also see i can slide each players mix around to adjust levels. However I see nothing stating where exactly these mixes are routed to as they show up on every single channel on the mixer.


I don't know anything about Studio One so you'll have to dope that out for yourself. But there must be a way to assign where those mixes go. So it may be possible to create stereo headphone mixes in Studio One and assign them to channels in the console that you can then send to the headphone amplifier. Depending on how many headphone mixes you need, you may have to juggle some things. If you can get away with one or two stereo mixes, send those back to channels on the StudioLive, and send the Aux outputs from those channels to Inputs A and B on the headphone amplifier. You might have one mix be just vocals and the other just instruments. and then use the direct outputs of the mixer for "more me" that anyone wants.

I really can't help you out with the Studio One routing. I don't have the program. Maybe someone who uses it, and uses the Cue Mix section, can help you out here. I can only tell you how to do it using the StudioLive. Remember - You don't sand anything directly from Studio One to the headphone amplfier. It has to go through the StudioLive mixer in order to get there. And there are a limited number of inputs on your headphone amplifier. It will take you some time to sort this all out. Do little experiments so that you understand how the inputs to the headphone amplifier work. Then you'll better understand what you need to send to the headphone amplifier.

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highdefinitionstudios
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MikeRivers wrote:
highdefinitionstudios wrote:
I was talking about the direct outs 1-8. I have the DB25 connectors for channels 1-8 in the back of the board and am using cables 1-6 part to feed each channel 1-6 on the hp 60,.


Just to be clear - those are individual channel outputs. If you have a singer's mic plugged into Channel 1, you'll get only the singer coming out the Channel 1 Direct Output, not a mix of anything. The only place this is useful with your headphone amplifier is if you send an overall mix to all of the six phones, and use the direct outputs to add "more me" to each of the six channels. But if you have a singer who plays guitar, he couldn't get more of his voice and more of his guitar in his headphones, just one or the other.


SO I understand setting the AUX level to each channel however are you saying that for instance in my Studio One Pro software that I need to go into the I/O setup and assign each track a player is on at a specific level and directe this to each channel of the hp60?


It depends on where in the recording process you are. You may have to make some routing changes along the way. When you're recording basic tracks, that is when the band is playing without listening to playback from the computer, you will want to send the mic/line inputs that you're recording to the Aux buses and make up your headphone mixes that way. If you need six mixes, they'll have to be mono, not stereo, since that's what your headphone amplifier can accommodate. In this case, the Firewire button on the individual channels would be up, so the input signal and not the recorded track goes through the channel path.

When you're overdubbing, you have a couple of choices. You can create a mix of the recorded tracks in Studio One, send that back to the console on a pair of input channels (not the stereo Firewire playback output), and make your headphone mix from those two channels (with the Firewire button pressed) and the mic the the person recording is using (with the Firewire button up).

Another approach is to assign each track in Studio One to its own StudioLive input channel, send those back to the mixer, and use the Aux Send controls on those channels, plus the the channel you're using for recording, to create your headphone mix. If you're building up a lot of tracks, eventually you'll run out of mixer channels you can use, so you'll need to make sub-mixes in Studio One and send those to StudioLive channels.

What you're looking at isn't simple. You just have to study the manual, crummy as it is, watch the videos (better), and experiment. There's no one set way to do this, and you need to find a way that you understand, and that works with what you're doing.


I do see that I have the ability to create individual headphone mixes by creating stereo pairs in the output section of the I/O and clicking the CUE MIX box next to each of them, which in turn creates a headphone control slot on the studio one pro mixer board. I also see i can slide each players mix around to adjust levels. However I see nothing stating where exactly these mixes are routed to as they show up on every single channel on the mixer.


I don't know anything about Studio One so you'll have to dope that out for yourself. But there must be a way to assign where those mixes go. So it may be possible to create stereo headphone mixes in Studio One and assign them to channels in the console that you can then send to the headphone amplifier. Depending on how many headphone mixes you need, you may have to juggle some things. If you can get away with one or two stereo mixes, send those back to channels on the StudioLive, and send the Aux outputs from those channels to Inputs A and B on the headphone amplifier. You might have one mix be just vocals and the other just instruments. and then use the direct outputs of the mixer for "more me" that anyone wants.

I really can't help you out with the Studio One routing. I don't have the program. Maybe someone who uses it, and uses the Cue Mix section, can help you out here. I can only tell you how to do it using the StudioLive. Remember - You don't sand anything directly from Studio One to the headphone amplfier. It has to go through the StudioLive mixer in order to get there. And there are a limited number of inputs on your headphone amplifier. It will take you some time to sort this all out. Do little experiments so that you understand how the inputs to the headphone amplifier work. Then you'll better understand what you need to send to the headphone amplifier.



Thanks so much for the help. Very knowledgable answer and it cleared alot of things up for me. Thanks for the reply !
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funkafize
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I think the combined use of the 1642 and HP60 was covered a little in the old forum. One issue covered was how to connect the 1642's aux outs to the HP60's individual channel specific "stereo external in" (more me feature). The problem was that the 1642 aux out is a typical balanced mono signal on a TRS, whereas the HP60's TRS external in is expecting a stereo signal. So (correct me if i'm wrong), I think that means you would only get your aux signal in the left ear. If you press the mono button on the HP60 it sums the tip and ring signal together. Thats fine if it's being fed a stereo signal as left and right will be summed to the same signal in both ears. But (and this is where the 1642 comes in), If the HP60 is being fed a balanced mono signal, summing the +ve Tip with the -'ve Ring results in phasing and cancellations.
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funkafize wrote:The problem was that the 1642 aux out is a typical balanced mono signal on a TRS, whereas the HP60's TRS external in is expecting a stereo signal. So (correct me if i'm wrong), I think that means you would only get your aux signal in the left ear.

I believe that's what you'd get, but it could be worse. The Aux outputs of the StudioLive are, I believe, single-ended balanced, which means that there's no signal between sleeve and ring. If the outputs were differential, you'd get signals in both ears, but they'd be out of polarity and it would sound (depending on your source) either like there was a hole in the middle or it's trying to split your head down the middle.


If you press the mono button on the HP60 it sums the tip and ring signal together. Thats fine if it's being fed a stereo signal as left and right will be summed to the same signal in both ears. But (and this is where the 1642 comes in), If the HP60 is being fed a balanced mono signal, summing the +ve Tip with the -'ve Ring results in phasing and cancellations.

But with no signal on one channel, the sum of Tip + 0 = Tip, which is just what you want. If you summed the two sides of a differential output, you'd get Signal + (-Signal) = 0.

It's why you gotta read the manual. It's why you gotta have a good manual.

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I ended up using TS Connectors for the Aux outs - HP60 in, set up for mono. And an XLR out to TRS in for Mix A. I noticed that When I brought up a "more me" of any single channel there was a point where it would cancel - there is phase cancellation between main and aux inputs. I was already using a pair of female XLR to TRS adapters at the Main inputs so I swapped pins 2 and 3 in the adapters, and all was well. (LABEL THE ADAPTERS WELL OR THEY WILL BITE YOU IN WHERE YOU SIT!)


Cheers..Grif

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steve griffiths wrote:I ended up using TS Connectors for the Aux outs - HP60 in, set up for mono. And an XLR out to TRS in for Mix A. I noticed that When I brought up a "more me" of any single channel there was a point where it would cancel - there is phase cancellation between main and aux inputs.

Interesting. I'm pretty sure that I checked out the polarity of all the outputs of the StudioLive when I had one here for a review, so either your adapters were wired backwards or the HP60 has the polarity reversed somewhere. It wasn't until about 20 years ago that the AES published a standard of polarity ("Pin 2 hot") which is conventionally interpreted to convert to Pin 2 = tip, Pin 3 = Ring. I'm pretty sure I have an article about this on my web page.

I suppose they could call it a feature and say you can use the control for "less me."
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MikeRivers wrote:
steve griffiths wrote:I ended up using TS Connectors for the Aux outs - HP60 in, set up for mono. And an XLR out to TRS in for Mix A. I noticed that When I brought up a "more me" of any single channel there was a point where it would cancel - there is phase cancellation between main and aux inputs.

Interesting. I'm pretty sure that I checked out the polarity of all the outputs of the StudioLive when I had one here for a review, so either your adapters were wired backwards or the HP60 has the polarity reversed somewhere. It wasn't until about 20 years ago that the AES published a standard of polarity ("Pin 2 hot") which is conventionally interpreted to convert to Pin 2 = tip, Pin 3 = Ring. I'm pretty sure I have an article about this on my web page.

I suppose they could call it a feature and say you can use the control for "less me."


Hi Mike,

The XLR - TRS adapters were wired pin two - tip until I reversed them. At least it was an easy change, and let me use regular TS/TS cables for the auxes. I remember in the late 70s early 80s when I came over with a Midas Martin rig, the Euro and US standards were reversed, and we had to identify (for example) Euro and US AKG mics for that very reason. Also JBL decided to complicate matters by deciding that a "Positive pulse on the red connector of a speaker would result in a rearward motion of the cone" - Fun days indeed.

Cheers..Grif

bt I think I remember reading something in a thread here about the HP60 changing specs at some pint - I've been wrong before, but it would explain people having different results for the same scenario. SG
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steve griffiths wrote:
bt I think I remember reading something in a thread here about the HP60 changing specs at some pint - I've been wrong before, but it would explain people having different results for the same scenario. SG


Yeah I was about to post similar thing. Old thread had people getting different results when using 1642 aux's to HP60's external stereo in's. Methinks HP60 over few years of production has had some different spec's / versions without official notification.
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