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Record Mode - Overdub (Can't make it work like I think it should)
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jonelli
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Why when I record over an existing track does it split the underlying track into two events? How do I prevent this?
I have tried hunting in the manual and tried changing Record modes, but nothing changes this behavior.

I want to overdub onto an existing track without changing the underlying audio event. What am I doing wrong?
SL16.4.2, FaderPort, S1Pro, Cubase, Renkus-Heinz, Ibanez Guitars, TC Gmajor2, custom amps, Eis Cafe Studios (1997-2000), UNIT287 www.unit287.com
themuzic
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jonelli wrote:Why when I record over an existing track does it split the underlying track into two events? How do I prevent this?
I have tried hunting in the manual and tried changing Record modes, but nothing changes this behavior.

I want to overdub onto an existing track without changing the underlying audio event. What am I doing wrong?


Ok, do you want to hear both parts? If not, when you overdub (or punch) a correction in a track, a cut is created if the punch occurs in the middle of an already existing track.

OR, is what you're looking for like Cubase does where it records the new punch over the old part yet the old part stays in tact? If so, the old part is still there but you need to stretch it back or hit undo.

Cubase used to be able to just keep them overlapped, with the new punch, if you moved it, the old track was still there but didn't need to be stretched out again.

A bit confusing to explain but maybe AC knows a better answer to this.


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jonelli
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Yes, I think you're describing exactly my confusion. I come from using many old DAW programs, lastly Nuendo/Cuebase.
And, no, I dont' want to hear both parts.

Here's an example.. Lets say I have a vocal track, and I overdub a section 2, 3, or 4 times and I want to use parts of each overdub to complete the vocal track. I don't see how I can easily do this when each audio event take underneath is automatically getting spliced.
I'm going to do my fine-tuning later after I'm done overdubbing 20 times. And I'll mostly likely be doing it manually, not setting loop points.
Right now, the way it is behaving, I see a lot of work ahead of me. I don't want that. If there is some new miraculous way of doing this much less painfully, I'm all ears.

Please advise!!!
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jonelli
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Sorry if my post was wordy. YES, like Cubase. overdub just overlaps on top of each other. how do I make it like that? Or is there a better way I don't know about?
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themuzic
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Oh, I see. You want layers or takes. This video may help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vUt2IaqSSg

To the Admins: Why the does embedding a video not work anymore in this forum. Very frustrating..

If I do it like I always have, I get this crap now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 26/01/2011 03:25:02


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Phone - 773-303-7260
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jonelli
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Okay, please help me understand, because I just watched that video, and it make my ass pucker. That seems to me like going completely backwards in how I want my DAW to behave. I have done punches in vocals that are actually on mid-word consonants manually on tape many times. There's no way I can work at that level of detail by using the takes, comp track functions and split tools. It just makes no sense to me and seems to add incredible amounts of work to manage overdub takes.

I'm doing NO midi or sample instruments, just acoustic recording...

What am I missing?
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themuzic
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jonelli wrote:Okay, please help me understand, because I just watched that video, and it make my ass pucker. That seems to me like going completely backwards in how I want my DAW to behave. I have done punches in vocals that are actually on mid-word consonants manually on tape many times. There's no way I can work at that level of detail by using the takes, comp track functions and split tools. It just makes no sense to me and seems to add incredible amounts of work to manage overdub takes.

I'm doing NO midi or sample instruments, just acoustic recording...

What am I missing?


Well, first, get a breath mint for your ass I suppose... (just kidding)

But right now, that's what we have. Studio One is still expanding and there are more improvements for this on the way. Hopefully, you're still using the Demo but if you bought it without testing all this first, I'm not sure anyone here is going to be able to make you very happy at this point.

Sorry man. I tried.

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Phone - 773-303-7260
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AudioCave
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I can make that work here by setting the options as shown below.

Let me say that while I know Studio One pretty well, I'm not an expert on it by any means. When something doesn't behave the way I expect or want it to I just start changing all of the relevant options to see what the other behaviors do. Often one of them does the thing I wanted and I learn some other new stuff in the process. So, it doesn't hurt to do that when that happens, when something doesn't behave how you expect.

Below are audio overdubs that didn't split the underlying part, they just lay over it. I can't say that the option "Loop Record Mix" says anything that led me there, it was just an option that wasn't on when it didn't work so I turned it on and tried it.



Just in case they're somehow related, here are my audio engine options. Does "Play Overlapping Events" change that behavior? No idea. You'd have to turn it off and try it to find out.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 26/01/2011 03:59:12

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themuzic
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AudioCave wrote:I can make that work here by setting the options as shown below.

Let me say that while I know Studio One pretty well, I'm not an expert on it by any means. When something doesn't behave the way I expect or want it to I just start changing all of the relevant options to see what the other behaviors do. Often one of them does the thing I wanted and I learn some other new stuff in the process. So, it doesn't hurt to do that when that happens, when something doesn't behave how you expect.

Below are audio overdubs that didn't split the underlying part, they just lay over it. I can't say that the option "Loop Record Mix" says anything that led me there, it was just an option that wasn't on when it didn't work so I turned it on and tried it.



Just in case they're somehow related, here are my audio engine options. Does "Play Overlapping Events" change that behavior? No idea. You'd have to turn it off and try it to find out.



Thanx for posting AC. I had no idea about this. I have wondered about this for awhile though...

http://www.homestudiotrainer.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/themuzic
Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
Skype - themuzic
Phone - 773-303-7260
I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

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AudioCave
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After some more looking, it only works with "Play Overlapping Events" turned on.

As to the behavior, at first I didn't particularly care for the "auto-trimming" of events when punching like that but the more I used it the more I like it. If I wanted to comp really, really quickly I'd probably just record on another track for punching like that just do the edits manually and feed a common bus, but it works rather well and keep things kinda neat... imo... for straight away punching.

As usual mileage may and will vary, so having an option not to do that wouldn't be a bad idea, for people who don't want that.

To the OP - so there is no misunderstanding - my comments about "checking the options" wasn't really directed at you, I know you tried some different options (maybe not all) , but it was more a reply to Muzic's "ask AC maybe he knows" comment.

Honestly, for the most part when I am able to answer people's questions it's just after sitting down and trying to do the thing they're asking about. So that comment wasn't suggesting that you didn't try some options before asking... I know you did... if it kinda reads that way, that's not what I meant when I wrote it.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 26/01/2011 04:29:43

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jonelli
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To both of you guys... Please don't be afraid to tell me, "hey dummy, its over here..." Honestly, I'm trying all I can to figure everything out, but some things are just not obvious or not doing what I think they should do.

AC, If I can make my S1 do what you just did, I'd be very happy. But I can't! I tried to set my options like yours and thats when I noticed it... holy crap. Mine looked different! So, having just downloaded the latest update... guess what???

It friggen works now.... Just as I want it to...!

And to themusic, yes, I own both S1 Artist and Pro. Its a long story, but I got the spiel from a high up at Presonus when I was getting my StudioLive, so I thought it sounded interesting, I wanted to support and give it a shot. I'm trying!

Honestly, if it weren't for you guys in this community forum, I'd be giving up very quickly.
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jonelli
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Okay, I've got that to work now, and I can send each overdub forward or back, but now the next thing I can't figure out is how to "tab" through them to get, say, the one behind to come to the front. I guess I can click on the foremost overdub and send it back. Its just clunky.

New problem found -
With Audio Engine setting "Play overlapping events" UN checked, it splices the underlying audio track.
With it CHECKED, it does as AC showed, it overlaps takes, but it always plays all of them!? If I go back after the fact and UN check "play overlapping events" the takes behave exactly as I'd want, but any new recording overdubs now splice underlying tracks.

I'm thinking that since this didn't seem to work in an older version that I had, that this might be buggy behavior.
Can anyone confirm this?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 26/01/2011 06:52:25

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Rangersam
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jonelli wrote:Okay, I've got that to work now, and I can send each overdub forward or back, but now the next thing I can't figure out is how to "tab" through them to get, say, the one behind to come to the front. I guess I can click on the foremost overdub and send it back. Its just clunky.

New problem found -
With Audio Engine setting "Play overlapping events" UN checked, it splices the underlying audio track.
With it CHECKED, it does as AC showed, it overlaps takes, but it always plays all of them!? If I go back after the fact and UN check "play overlapping events" the takes behave exactly as I'd want, but any new recording overdubs now splice underlying tracks.

I'm thinking that since this didn't seem to work in an older version that I had, that this might be buggy behavior.
Can anyone confirm this?


You and I are on the same page with this one. I have read your posts, and have in the past discussed the same dilemma. To my knowledge, what you want is not an offered feature in S1 (yet, hopefully). The Cubase feature 'record in lanes', or the Record feature to 'record in clips', are exactly what you are referring to.

I have raised several times that 'loop record' and 'layer record' does not provide a satisfactory option for hardcore comping, where as you say, you may repeat a short section several times, and then go through all the takes to select or comp the best one(s). The 'loop record' feature is not a satisfactory option in this case, as every successive overdub is most likely done based on an assessment of the previous take. When I take a singer though laying down a part, there is always discussion about how each phrase should be sung, and the easiest way is try a take, point out the good and bad parts, and then do it again. Loop record is useless for this.

In S1, overdubbing on one track erases the older takes from the track, although admittedly they are still there in the audio pool until you hit the 'delete unused takes button'. 'Loop record' and 'layers' are useful features that I do use, but they are not adequate replacements for what you want (and are used to). Sadly this is one of the reasons I need to go back to Cubase from time to time.

This is one feature I was surprised to find lacking in S1. There is clearly a technical reason why it is not offered, as 'recording in lanes' in Cubase is one of the easiest things to use when trying to nail a difficult section. Whether the mindset is that this is not required, or will be offered in a coming update, I cannot say. The only thing we can do is keep talking about it and hope THEY listen.

If this feature has been altered in the last couple of updates, I am not aware of it.
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jonelli
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You described it perfectly, thank you. No offense to all the S1 users, but if I were running a professional studio environment for RECORDING (not just music production), this would be a very important feature to me, and I'd really want this to work as described in this thread. I don't want to record to another track, I want to use the original track and punch on top of it wherever i want. I want to hear the original recorded audio sometimes before the punch and only hear the "punched" part while in record mode. Then I want to be able to easily manipulate the punched parts on top of the original audio track. I want to do this on the fly, I don't want to set loop points.
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AudioCave
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AudioCave wrote:... having an option not to do that wouldn't be a bad idea...


No disagreement here... ^^^^
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