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the evil of the loudness wars has reached my studio...
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jemusic
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From what I can see the pan law in Studio One is fixed at -3dB. (without any effects inserted that is) As mentioned in one of my previous posts be careful dropping test tones onto a mono track and paning it centre as it will drop the signal by 3 dB.

You can vary pan laws also by inserting 'Dual Pan' effect plugin and from there you can selecet a variety of pan laws. You also have control of the panning of L and R channels separately.

I have never had a problem with the (fixed) pan law in Studio One. I think the value is well chosen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/02/2014 12:49:16

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jBranam
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now i ask you... how can anyone in their right minds want to crush something as fine a work as this? you have to open up the dynamics so's they's can breath. how else you gonna feel like you was right there with them whist they's playin"... now tell me!

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Bub
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jemusic wrote:I am not seeing any differences between Studio One rms meters and my own VU meters when I compare levels.


I think I have figured this out. At least partially.

I'm in the middle of a complicated mix and once again, I was noticing my Master LED meters do not match the numerical output.

It appears as though that even though you set the LED meters to K-14, the numerical display is still showing Peak/RMS.

I don't know if this is intended behavior or bug, but that solves something that's been driving me crazy for some time now!
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jemusic
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Hi Bub. BTW the guys over at the Sonar forum in the coffee house are saying they miss you. I told them we are looking after you here. Don't go there!!! Keep away!!!LOL

I think it might be a bug in your case. When I put my master meters into K mode (say K-14) they definitely switch into that mode. If I am playing back a test tone (stereo) on a track that is creating a perfect -14 dB FS level then if I insert say my Klanghelm meters and they are calibrated for K -14 then the Klang meters show 0 dBu. And the Studio One master meters also rise up to 0 dBu on the scale.

BTW if I put the master meters back to normal peak/rms mode both the peak and rms levels are shown down at -14 where they would expect to be.

If I run music for example (I have adjusted my Steely Dan track so it just peaks 0 dBu on both channels) both the Klang meters and the Studio One meters match up as they should.
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FyLe ForMatz
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Nutti wrote:am I better of mastering at -5db rms to keep customers happy and to be a bit louder than the big studios?


i'd say so.

i think these days dynamics are the exception and not the rule.
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FyLe ForMatz
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salvadoredelle wrote:
I would master a low budget local artists project but a big time artists I would call on the pro mastering engineer and go there


...sounds about right...
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Klypeman
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Julia B wrote:Then there is the difference of pan laws of different DAWs. Because I do a lot of side to side panning I usually change the pan law in S1. Cubase has a different pan law.


: Julia B , You can change the pan law in Project Setup on Cubase 7
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Bub
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jemusic wrote:Hi Bub. BTW the guys over at the Sonar forum in the coffee house are saying they miss you. I told them we are looking after you here. Don't go there!!! Keep away!!!LOL


Thanks for letting me know, and thanks for looking after me. . I miss the guys in the CH a lot.

Unfortunately I didn't get your warning quick enough to 'keep away' and I was 'lurking' over in the X3 forum yesterday. Keep away is a bloody understatement. There's a nasty thread going on where a forum member that is notorious for attacking people went after Ed. It's always the same group of people that go on the attack over there and have been ruining the forum for years, starting around 11/6/2003.

Anyway ...

jemusic wrote:I think it might be a bug in your case.


The more I look at this, the more I think it's intended behavior. Here's a screenshot to show what I'm talking about ...



The top number seems to be locked to the Peak/RMS settings. And that's ok, but it really threw me off because I always assumed it followed the scale you have the meters set to.

Anyone can check this. Set your Master bus meter to K-14 and see if the LED's match the top number. They don't on my system unless I select Peak/RMS.

Shane
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hibidy
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The sonar forum is 20-40% worse than other bad forums.
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jemusic
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OK Bub. Firstly I am only seeing a very slight difference in levels there in your shot to be honest but never the less they should not be there at all. I have just run some tests again for you and I am seeing identical levels everywhere with both channels. (when I play my stereo -14 dB test tone that is) And that applies to both rms/peak settings and K settings.

Are your pan pots on the track and the master exactly centre. Hold down Ctrl and click on both of those pan pots just to be sure they are both centered exactly. Make sure there are no plug ins present.

Try this too. Insert the tone generator onto a track. Set the output level to exactly -14. Note: If you have trouble doing this with the output level control just double click in this field and set the output level manually. Set the freq to say 400 Hz. Turn it on and you should also see identical levels everywhere on your main outs as well. I have just done this and it all works out.

Hope that helps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/02/2014 02:42:00

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Kahlbert
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Bub wrote:
jemusic wrote:I think it might be a bug in your case.


The more I look at this, the more I think it's intended behavior. Here's a screenshot to show what I'm talking about ...

(...)

The top number seems to be locked to the Peak/RMS settings. And that's ok, but it really threw me off because I always assumed it followed the scale you have the meters set to.

Anyone can check this. Set your Master bus meter to K-14 and see if the LED's match the top number. They don't on my system unless I select Peak/RMS.

Shane

Hey Shane, the read-out is indeed fixed to show the peak level. This is still compliant to K-specs, though, so I'd consider this intended, not a bug.

Hope that helps ...
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Bub
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Kahlbert wrote:
Hey Shane, the read-out is indeed fixed to show the peak level. This is still compliant to K-specs, though, so I'd consider this intended, not a bug.

Hope that helps ...


Thank you for confirming that Kahlbert.

And thanks Jeff for taking the time to look in to. It looks like the mystery is solved.

Shane
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Bub
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hibidy wrote:The sonar forum is 20-40% worse than other bad forums.


"I'd rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with my tongue than spend one more minute with you."
Rynlander
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I wanted to bump this, mostly because you guys are good. I'm new to recording, but have been a musician for over 20 years. I like to record all by myself, and would like to have some good mastering done by myself. When I upload any songs I'm working on up to soundcloud, if I stay at -8 db, I'm way quieter than others. Is it bad for me to use a limiter to get my songs up to that volume?
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Beauvais
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Rynlander wrote:I wanted to bump this, mostly because you guys are good. I'm new to recording, but have been a musician for over 20 years. I like to record all by myself, and would like to have some good mastering done by myself. When I upload any songs I'm working on up to soundcloud, if I stay at -8 db, I'm way quieter than others. Is it bad for me to use a limiter to get my songs up to that volume?


It certainly makes sense to be at 0dB at the mastering stage. But to get there, just can just add 8dB of gain. Whether or not to use a limiter for that depends on other reasons. The discussion here was about RMS vs peak or crest factor, I don't think anyone would argue against your level being close to 0dB for peaks.
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