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24.4.2 Best channel preset for Harmonica ?
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Klypeman
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Joined: 03/02/2011 13:47:00
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I need a starting point as I have not done Harmonica live before and my best guess would be Hrn Sax Solo channel preset or one of the other Sax channel presets but need confirmation on that.
Cheers
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salvadoredelle
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depends... what mic? any fx boxes in line? is it amped and then mic the amp?

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Klypeman
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I'm think I'm gonna use either a SM58 to use only one mic,to catch Vocal and Harmonica or setup two different mics, 1 røde NT3 condenser for Harmonica and the SM58 for Vocals. on a T-Bar. No boxes and no amp.

This is acoustic with only DI'ed guitars and harmonica and tamborine, kind of soft.
I have available these Condensers, Røde NT1A, NT1, Røde NT3, Neumann 103, Røde NT2A, Sontronics DM-1b Sontronics STC-1 with several capsules.
Dynamics is SM57, SM58, Sennheiser 906.

If i'm gonna use the NT3 I'm thinking of using the foam windshield to avoid the harmonica air, a good idea ?
I can use a little Yamaha amp for the Harmonica and mic that if two mic's is all no no

Thanks Salvadore

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/05/2014 11:11:10

Windows 7 64bit Pro, Studio One 2.6 Pro, Cubase 7.5, Logic, Pro Tools, MacBook Pro, 24.4.2, 2 Projects, Firestudio 2626, Mackie MCU, Mackie PROFX 22, All Steinberg CMC´s, Yamaha SY 55, DSI Mopho, KRK Rokits 6´s, KRK VXT 8´s, SE Electronics HP6, SM Audio Mpatch 2.0+ 2.1, CME 61, Nocturn 25, UAD Plugins Galore, TC Voicelive Touch, Faderport, UAD Apollo Twin Duo, Satellite Quad, Quad PcIe, JoeMeek MC2, DBX 266XS. TC C300x3, M350, Yamaha REV 7.

salvadoredelle
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a good mic to look into may be the Green Bullet... $120 it has 1/4" plug for going into an amp... easy to handel with a harmonica on it.

I'd use the SM58 tho in the few you mentioned you have in your stock...

note... the hand of the player cups the head of an SM58 and this can and will cause feedback if you are too loud... also causes a mid-range bump so you may need dump that in the fat channel EQ... don't go overboard on any compression... but a limiter is good to keep it from slamming to hard... what ever you do, save the preset so you can mess with it again until you get your own personal setting....
Open Labs Sound Slate Pro Custom Music production PC ( windows i7 x64, SP1) 16GB RAM, Intel (R) Core (TM) i7CPU 870 @2.93 Ghz, x64 bit /
Open Labs Nikko XXL Windows XP Based master workstation / Presonus Firstudio Tube / Presonus Studio Live 24.4.2 (2) / Studio Live 1602 (1) / StudioLive 16.4.2 (1) w/ Mac mini and ipad / Capture / Protools / Ableton / Reaper / OMS / Studio One artists & pro / Midas Venue live mixers (3) / Sound Craft 24x8x2 analog live mixer / AVID SC48 Digital console with digital snake/ Various Meyer Sound systems Ultra Series Speakers / Protools Control 24 controller/mixer with Mac tower running protools. Tannoy SRM12B Studio Monitors (old school and still sound great!) Meyer HD1 studio Monitors.
Yamaha C7 Grand Piano w/ professional MIDI (NOT a disklavier player piano but a real MIDI interface on a real C7!)
tons of outboard gear and synths, Kurzweil RM-250/PC88/ EmU E4 EX Turbo,
Spector NS2 Bass, ART Tube preAmp, Old Kay upright bass, G&L Strat /Taylor Acoustic Guitars, Mackie / QSC / JBL 4628B cabaret (Old School) / and Meyer ULTRA SERIES UPA/UPJ/UP-JUNIOR/UPM/UMS/MM4/MTS4 Speakers are the best you can get!
Klypeman
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Yes, the Bullit would be nice if the player was not playing his guitar at the same time.Bob Dylan style.
What I really need is what preset allready on the mixer that would be the best to mess with of the startup presets in an aux or so to listen in solo on, before I use it on the channel of choice.

The reason I listed the mics was if by chance anyone had used one of them with good result I like to know.

Salvadore likes the SM58 and I look into it.

The T-Bar was a suggestion to see fi anyone has done it this way before with good result.
And yeah the proximity will do that bump and cupping can create feedback. This goes with most mics.

But back to the original question.

What preset on the 24.4.2 is the best for starters for harmonica. ?
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matthewgorman
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Diatonic harps Freq in Hz (1blow - 10 blow) ET with 440 Hz A:
High G: 392 - 3135.96
F#: 369.99 - 2959.96
F: 349.23 - 2793.83
E: 329.63 - 2637.02
Eb: 311.13 - 2489.02
D: 293.66 - 2349.32
Db: 277.18 - 2217.46
C: 261.63 - 2093
B: 246.94 - 1975.53
Bb: 233.08 - 1864.66
A: 220 - 1760
Ab: 207.65 - 1661.22
G: 196 - 1567.98
Low F: 174.61 - 1396.91


Looks like the frequency range is between 170hz up to around 3.1khz. Sounds like the player is using a neck holder? I don't know that I would do anything different than use the same 58 that is used for the vox. I've never done a show where the FOH has set up 2 different mics in this scenario. Its all dependent on the player or course, but a preset may not help in that regard either. Maybe more important would be the volume differences between singing (if there is any) and the harmonica.
Matt

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salvadoredelle
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yup! Matt is correct... just use a basic SM58 for vocal as you would normally but you as the engineer will have to ride it when he plays the harp... the vocal EQ etc... should be just fine for both. don't over think...
in fact, do as Bruce Lee would say... "don't think, feel!"
Open Labs Sound Slate Pro Custom Music production PC ( windows i7 x64, SP1) 16GB RAM, Intel (R) Core (TM) i7CPU 870 @2.93 Ghz, x64 bit /
Open Labs Nikko XXL Windows XP Based master workstation / Presonus Firstudio Tube / Presonus Studio Live 24.4.2 (2) / Studio Live 1602 (1) / StudioLive 16.4.2 (1) w/ Mac mini and ipad / Capture / Protools / Ableton / Reaper / OMS / Studio One artists & pro / Midas Venue live mixers (3) / Sound Craft 24x8x2 analog live mixer / AVID SC48 Digital console with digital snake/ Various Meyer Sound systems Ultra Series Speakers / Protools Control 24 controller/mixer with Mac tower running protools. Tannoy SRM12B Studio Monitors (old school and still sound great!) Meyer HD1 studio Monitors.
Yamaha C7 Grand Piano w/ professional MIDI (NOT a disklavier player piano but a real MIDI interface on a real C7!)
tons of outboard gear and synths, Kurzweil RM-250/PC88/ EmU E4 EX Turbo,
Spector NS2 Bass, ART Tube preAmp, Old Kay upright bass, G&L Strat /Taylor Acoustic Guitars, Mackie / QSC / JBL 4628B cabaret (Old School) / and Meyer ULTRA SERIES UPA/UPJ/UP-JUNIOR/UPM/UMS/MM4/MTS4 Speakers are the best you can get!
Klypeman
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I'll ride the fader anyway and yes the 58 is also what I think could work.

I had a throat-singer and a singer at the same mic once and that was wierd !! By luck he was tall and she was small. He was the throat-singer.

I just use eq as a sax, gentle compression with a small amount limiter for starters in the test aux (no output and soloed) and when satisfied copy and load on channel then ride the fader.
The condenser is out then.
Windows 7 64bit Pro, Studio One 2.6 Pro, Cubase 7.5, Logic, Pro Tools, MacBook Pro, 24.4.2, 2 Projects, Firestudio 2626, Mackie MCU, Mackie PROFX 22, All Steinberg CMC´s, Yamaha SY 55, DSI Mopho, KRK Rokits 6´s, KRK VXT 8´s, SE Electronics HP6, SM Audio Mpatch 2.0+ 2.1, CME 61, Nocturn 25, UAD Plugins Galore, TC Voicelive Touch, Faderport, UAD Apollo Twin Duo, Satellite Quad, Quad PcIe, JoeMeek MC2, DBX 266XS. TC C300x3, M350, Yamaha REV 7.

salvadoredelle
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if you wanna get real fancy split the SM58 into 2 separate channels, one for vocal one for harmonica and follow the performer bouncing between them... thats a little work but you can do it!

Myself I would set up one channel best for vocal and just ride the levels by hand as he plays and sings... K.I.S.S.
Open Labs Sound Slate Pro Custom Music production PC ( windows i7 x64, SP1) 16GB RAM, Intel (R) Core (TM) i7CPU 870 @2.93 Ghz, x64 bit /
Open Labs Nikko XXL Windows XP Based master workstation / Presonus Firstudio Tube / Presonus Studio Live 24.4.2 (2) / Studio Live 1602 (1) / StudioLive 16.4.2 (1) w/ Mac mini and ipad / Capture / Protools / Ableton / Reaper / OMS / Studio One artists & pro / Midas Venue live mixers (3) / Sound Craft 24x8x2 analog live mixer / AVID SC48 Digital console with digital snake/ Various Meyer Sound systems Ultra Series Speakers / Protools Control 24 controller/mixer with Mac tower running protools. Tannoy SRM12B Studio Monitors (old school and still sound great!) Meyer HD1 studio Monitors.
Yamaha C7 Grand Piano w/ professional MIDI (NOT a disklavier player piano but a real MIDI interface on a real C7!)
tons of outboard gear and synths, Kurzweil RM-250/PC88/ EmU E4 EX Turbo,
Spector NS2 Bass, ART Tube preAmp, Old Kay upright bass, G&L Strat /Taylor Acoustic Guitars, Mackie / QSC / JBL 4628B cabaret (Old School) / and Meyer ULTRA SERIES UPA/UPJ/UP-JUNIOR/UPM/UMS/MM4/MTS4 Speakers are the best you can get!
Klypeman
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Joined: 03/02/2011 13:47:00
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I got a splitter-cable I think that I know where the mute button is.. let's see..... nah I just ride the faders.
I think I follow your suggestion and do two side by side channels on the same mic.
Windows 7 64bit Pro, Studio One 2.6 Pro, Cubase 7.5, Logic, Pro Tools, MacBook Pro, 24.4.2, 2 Projects, Firestudio 2626, Mackie MCU, Mackie PROFX 22, All Steinberg CMC´s, Yamaha SY 55, DSI Mopho, KRK Rokits 6´s, KRK VXT 8´s, SE Electronics HP6, SM Audio Mpatch 2.0+ 2.1, CME 61, Nocturn 25, UAD Plugins Galore, TC Voicelive Touch, Faderport, UAD Apollo Twin Duo, Satellite Quad, Quad PcIe, JoeMeek MC2, DBX 266XS. TC C300x3, M350, Yamaha REV 7.

Klypeman
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Joined: 03/02/2011 13:47:00
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Today's the day. !!
Windows 7 64bit Pro, Studio One 2.6 Pro, Cubase 7.5, Logic, Pro Tools, MacBook Pro, 24.4.2, 2 Projects, Firestudio 2626, Mackie MCU, Mackie PROFX 22, All Steinberg CMC´s, Yamaha SY 55, DSI Mopho, KRK Rokits 6´s, KRK VXT 8´s, SE Electronics HP6, SM Audio Mpatch 2.0+ 2.1, CME 61, Nocturn 25, UAD Plugins Galore, TC Voicelive Touch, Faderport, UAD Apollo Twin Duo, Satellite Quad, Quad PcIe, JoeMeek MC2, DBX 266XS. TC C300x3, M350, Yamaha REV 7.

Klypeman
Presonic
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Joined: 03/02/2011 13:47:00
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Location: Oslo, Norway
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Gig done the Harmonica thing went without a glitch. The Neumann turned out to be a Neumann 105 and it was the girl, not the guy playing harmonica !.
And playing it by hand, not a neck thing and guitar.That will teach me not to be gender jugdemental !
The EQ was not changed and same with Compression, just a little riding on her fader was due for and the talent was very happy with their monitoring and I too with the Main. I used my Ipad to be able change stuff while I checked the room and stage at soundcheck and once under the concert but found no reason to meddle with what we got out from Main and Auxes.
Im happy. And so was the Arranger.
Windows 7 64bit Pro, Studio One 2.6 Pro, Cubase 7.5, Logic, Pro Tools, MacBook Pro, 24.4.2, 2 Projects, Firestudio 2626, Mackie MCU, Mackie PROFX 22, All Steinberg CMC´s, Yamaha SY 55, DSI Mopho, KRK Rokits 6´s, KRK VXT 8´s, SE Electronics HP6, SM Audio Mpatch 2.0+ 2.1, CME 61, Nocturn 25, UAD Plugins Galore, TC Voicelive Touch, Faderport, UAD Apollo Twin Duo, Satellite Quad, Quad PcIe, JoeMeek MC2, DBX 266XS. TC C300x3, M350, Yamaha REV 7.

 
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