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mastering has gone too far.
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mikejantram
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Joined: 25/07/2012 04:40:09
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I put up a post a while back about being upset that i had to send sub mixes off to the mastering engineer. just an update for ya ( and id love some opinions on this as well) im downright mad because NOW he wants all the stems for the drums. is it just me or is that taking things too far? i believe hes well outside the scope of a mastering engineer. thanks for your input! as a matter of fact- heres an A/B comparison of how the mix left the studio and what this guy has done. it plays in sections, a-b-a-b-a-b and so on. let me know what you think, as im in need of some reassurance here!! THANKS!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v86uhze8sm4rq0a/MasterTest.wav
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Bbd
Presonoid
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It appears his mix introduces a very mid range "nasal" sound but that is bringing out guitars and lead vocal more than the original. He also has some stereo widening effect on the mix.

Overall, he should not be messing with it as much. Seem like he is a frustrated producer more than a professional mastering engineer but I could be wrong.

Are you stuck with this guy?
Bbd

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mikejantram
Presonic
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Joined: 25/07/2012 04:40:09
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Yes. I'm stuck with this guy.
2 Firestudio Projects
Studio one Professional
FL Studio Producer
Melodyne Editor
Addictive drums (full) +Metal adpak
Windows 7 (64x) w/ Intel Core I3, 16G ram ASUS M.B.
Maudio Keyrig49 MIDI controller
Yamaha HS 50m powered monitors
Fender Acoustic
Washburn Banjo
Gibson SG Standard
SG double neck
Paul Reed Smith SE
Orange Amps
Mesa/Boogie Oversized Rectifier cab
Mini Rectifier Head
Shure, Rode, Akg, & Cad mics
AKG & Sennheiser headphones
Furman power conditioning
ART Digital MPA II tube preamp
Radial MC3 Monitor controller (I love this thing!!!!!)
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Tama hardware
mwright137
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Joined: 28/10/2011 17:57:00
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Sorry. Yes - this is asking too much. And that's not an opinion based on listening - the WAV says it's gone. That's just an opinion based on following your saga...lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 24/05/2014 21:29:45

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mikejantram
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Joined: 25/07/2012 04:40:09
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thanks for the support guys. this just really bums me out as fist of all, i dont trust this guy to release a good product, and second, this was supposed to be a big release for my studio. im not sure i want to put my name on it anymore... certainly in a bind.
2 Firestudio Projects
Studio one Professional
FL Studio Producer
Melodyne Editor
Addictive drums (full) +Metal adpak
Windows 7 (64x) w/ Intel Core I3, 16G ram ASUS M.B.
Maudio Keyrig49 MIDI controller
Yamaha HS 50m powered monitors
Fender Acoustic
Washburn Banjo
Gibson SG Standard
SG double neck
Paul Reed Smith SE
Orange Amps
Mesa/Boogie Oversized Rectifier cab
Mini Rectifier Head
Shure, Rode, Akg, & Cad mics
AKG & Sennheiser headphones
Furman power conditioning
ART Digital MPA II tube preamp
Radial MC3 Monitor controller (I love this thing!!!!!)
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mwright137
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I'd pose that exact question to your client. Something like "I want nothing to do with this if this person is going to ruin it. Can we go with someone else?"
I am Sir Melvis Bacon, Knight of BaconHam Palace.

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mikejantram
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Joined: 25/07/2012 04:40:09
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im definitely adding some clauses to my contracts... i have veto power over any mastering i dont think is up to par. "if i can do a better job myself, we sure as hell wont use that guy" fair enough right?
2 Firestudio Projects
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Addictive drums (full) +Metal adpak
Windows 7 (64x) w/ Intel Core I3, 16G ram ASUS M.B.
Maudio Keyrig49 MIDI controller
Yamaha HS 50m powered monitors
Fender Acoustic
Washburn Banjo
Gibson SG Standard
SG double neck
Paul Reed Smith SE
Orange Amps
Mesa/Boogie Oversized Rectifier cab
Mini Rectifier Head
Shure, Rode, Akg, & Cad mics
AKG & Sennheiser headphones
Furman power conditioning
ART Digital MPA II tube preamp
Radial MC3 Monitor controller (I love this thing!!!!!)
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salvadoredelle
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with all this new digital technology being more affordable anyone can afford to jump into the ring, so we are seeing a lot more of these so called "Producers" and or "Mastering Engineers". I can get a monkey to be a Producer!

Mastering is an art and science. It takes years of experience and is an ever changing field. Just because you have a gun does not make you a marksman! I can master my own mixes but I much prefer taking them to a trusted Mastering Engineer who has the right tools and facilities and experience to make it what I could never do on my own. It's a different deal than producing and mixing... Mixing too! I will call in a good trusted engineer to help me see the forest from the trees.

I have even sent mixes to several Mastering Engineers to get an idea of how different their approach and end products are.

I have never had to send anything but the final mixes. I'd check into a few other options and not be stuck with a guy that is not giving results you want in your final product.

Also... I fancy myself to be a damn good recording and mix engineer... I can produce some killer mixes... but I know there are guys that can do it better than me so if the project allows for a second mix engineer I know a few really good guys that I can call on... this way I can sit back and look at it from another perspective... I can be the "Producer" and let my friend do his best work. We work as a team and get better results... I would never "Master" it myself even though I have most the tools to do so. I go to the pros and have it done far beyond what I can do myself.

here are a few top notch Mastering guys I have had excellent results with:

Joe Gastwirt.
http://www.gastwirtmastering.com/

George Horn
CD and LP Mastering
510 486 2137
georgerhorn@aol.com
Fantasy Studios Berkeley CA

Bernie Grundman
http://www.berniegrundmanmastering.com/

Paul Stubblebine
http://www.studioexpresso.com/Spotlight%20Archive/Spotlightstubblebine.shtml
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mikejantram
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Joined: 25/07/2012 04:40:09
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i think thats exactly the problem here. the guy generally doesnt understand the scope of his job....i gave the band this analogy--- "ok, we just finished tracking everything, but im gonna bring in some studio musicians to re-track a few things" you think they would be offended?? thats exactly whats happening here. lesson learned i guess... ill wait to hear the final versions before i decide whether or not to take my name off the project.. really disappointed. oh well..
2 Firestudio Projects
Studio one Professional
FL Studio Producer
Melodyne Editor
Addictive drums (full) +Metal adpak
Windows 7 (64x) w/ Intel Core I3, 16G ram ASUS M.B.
Maudio Keyrig49 MIDI controller
Yamaha HS 50m powered monitors
Fender Acoustic
Washburn Banjo
Gibson SG Standard
SG double neck
Paul Reed Smith SE
Orange Amps
Mesa/Boogie Oversized Rectifier cab
Mini Rectifier Head
Shure, Rode, Akg, & Cad mics
AKG & Sennheiser headphones
Furman power conditioning
ART Digital MPA II tube preamp
Radial MC3 Monitor controller (I love this thing!!!!!)
Ludwig 7pc kit, Sabian AA, AAX series cymbals
Tama hardware
matthewgorman
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Why not just politely tell him no, you cant have the drum stems? Let him justify why he needs something he shouldnt be asking for in the first place? Otherwise, you are the one doing all the compromising.
Matt

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Lokeyfly
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mikejantram wrote: I put up a post a while back about being upset that i had to send sub mixes off to the mastering engineer. just an update for ya ( and id love some opinions on this as well) im downright mad because NOW he wants all the stems for the drums. is it just me or is that taking things too far? i believe hes well outside the scope of a mastering engineer. thanks for your input! as a matter of fact- heres an A/B comparison of how the mix left the studio and what this guy has done. it plays in sections, a-b-a-b-a-b and so on. let me know what you think, as im in need of some reassurance here!! THANKS!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v86uhze8sm4rq0a/MasterTest.wav

Nothing in the dropbox, so I couldn't tell, but that's not important. First, just be calm and know that you are in the drivers seat not him.

I will tell you this. No matter what mastering house you work with that has any sense of professionalism, they will not continue, unless you are satisfied. Not fully knowing the situation, I see you have two alternatives.

First: Even if you question the mix, or don't like it, don't like him, don't trust him, don't like the color of his shirt, you'll probably have to pay a 10% fee of what has been done, and write it off as an experience you'll avoid going forward. If you paid all up front (shame on you) and he tells you that that was the cost of studio mix time, or any such fee, he is full of you know what. It is their job to send you a sample and you then determine if you want to proceed. In this case, you are doubtful. With that, on his side of things, your mix may be hard to get good or respectable results from, and he needs to get a better drum mix. By all accounts, if he should be able to at least get something worthwhile on one or some of the songs, but not hearing the mix, I cant say.

Second: You give him an ultimatum and have him mix you one song that sounds good to your liking. Then you decide to back out, or go with him.

I will say that often a mix will drop down particularly in the low end and it is something clients are not used to. What you need to do is not A/B it with your mix, but take the mix solely on it's own, and burn his mix (and only his mix) on a CD/DVD. Play the disk of songs on any stereo anywhere, be it in the car, your living room, friends house. Compare that single mix with another CD of some similar genre and see if you like it. Is the bass relatively the same now to those other songs?

Often customer/clients cannot weigh out and compare a mastered mix unless they make unbiased, honest, and smart decisions.
You're doing the right thing by asking others. Feel this guy out, and see if he genuinely is trying to do the best by you.

Without hearing anything, I can't say more. Good luck, and don't be the victim. If you're not happy, he cannot take your green on this. If not, you have a case against him. If you worked hard at something, you better be taking it to a reputable place that you heard their results. That's the business my friend.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/05/2014 13:09:29

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

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sirmonkey
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mike,

As a beginner, I'm looking to learn about all of this stuff. But the link with the sound file doesn't work any more. Any chance you could repost that?
mikejantram
Presonic
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Joined: 25/07/2012 04:40:09
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thanks for getting back to me guys.. ive decided to send the stems to him, (kicking and screaming by the way.) i had to completely empty my dropbox account to make room, so i had to delete that comparison track i posted. ill get it back up here in a bit for you guys. i learned a lot dealing with this guy. im by no means a mastering expert, but after the original stero mix, a sub-mix, and now the actual stems have been added one on top of another, what are the odds that all the low-end loss is simply phase related?? on the bright side, i havent given him any money whatsoever. being a small time operation, i left it in the bands hands after tracking to get it mastered. their record label insisted on this guy, so my hands were pretty tied. If the end product is complete shit, ill pull my name from the project. i think whatever good things could have come from doing all of this right, and getting my name out there will be damaged to a larger degree with the product i believe he will end up with. i am keeping my chin up in the mean time hoping that he ends up with something worth listening to. anyways.. heres the link to my original mix side by side with the "mastered" audio. a-b-a-b- and so on.. p.s. why did he load the tracks up with reverb to gain "clarity"??? this guy blows my mind...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v86uhze8sm4rq0a/MasterTest.wav
2 Firestudio Projects
Studio one Professional
FL Studio Producer
Melodyne Editor
Addictive drums (full) +Metal adpak
Windows 7 (64x) w/ Intel Core I3, 16G ram ASUS M.B.
Maudio Keyrig49 MIDI controller
Yamaha HS 50m powered monitors
Fender Acoustic
Washburn Banjo
Gibson SG Standard
SG double neck
Paul Reed Smith SE
Orange Amps
Mesa/Boogie Oversized Rectifier cab
Mini Rectifier Head
Shure, Rode, Akg, & Cad mics
AKG & Sennheiser headphones
Furman power conditioning
ART Digital MPA II tube preamp
Radial MC3 Monitor controller (I love this thing!!!!!)
Ludwig 7pc kit, Sabian AA, AAX series cymbals
Tama hardware
mwright137
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Joined: 28/10/2011 17:57:00
Messages: 3878
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I assume the good sounding parts were your mix and the crap was his master?

Maybe this guy never mastered this style of music before?
I am Sir Melvis Bacon, Knight of BaconHam Palace.

MacBook Pro 13. OS X Mavericks - version 10.9.3
StudioLive 16.4.2; StudioLive 328AI (x2)
AudioBox 22 VSL; BlueTube DP V2; FaderPort; Monitor Station; FireStudio Project (x2)
Studio One 2 Pro 2.6.2 (64 bit)
I use Gobbler to back up my projects.
[WWW]
sirmonkey
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Joined: 09/02/2014 03:51:47
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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The most obvious thing I heard was at 2:17, where the whole sound gets "thinner" or maybe "mid-range-y". This was the most obvious change. What happened there?
* I'm listening on $40 headphones, on my laptop.
 
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