image description


Just what is the story with the user manual? Why are half the features not documented?
  Forum Index » Studio One General Discussion 
Author
Message
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

hate for hating's sake i reckon.
Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
dgkenney
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 20/10/2011 04:33:34
Messages: 1111
Location: California
Offline

matthewgorman wrote:
Its not like I called anyone a hobbyist or something......


Easy there. You could get Re-Gormaned from the group with talk like that

Dan
All the cool kids hang out in the middle of their meters, you should too.

S1/2 Pro
***Lenovo i5 @ 3.1ghz running Windows 8.1 x64 with Syba Low Profile PCI-Express 1394b/1394a (2B1A) Card, TI Chipset, SD-PEX30009
*** Levono E520 with SYBA SD-EXPC34-2F 1394A Firewire 2-Port ExpressCard *** Win 7 64 Pro
*** Firestudio Mobile
*** Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2
*** Digidesign Eleven Rack, PT 10
Sold my PTHD system to someone who didn't mind paying $8000 for an upgrade to 11
matthewgorman
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/02/2011 21:30:31
Messages: 3219
Location: Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey.
Offline

dgkenney wrote:
matthewgorman wrote:
Its not like I called anyone a hobbyist or something......


Easy there. You could get Re-Gormaned from the group with talk like that

Dan


I wish you lived on the east coast.

Now that I am thinking, if you happen to have a chance out there, check out Reverend Nat's Cider. It's my brother's new startup.

Damn, now I'm probably going to get sent to the Spam Thread......

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/05/2014 20:38:46

Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

spamming can get you 'Re-Gormaned' for sure. speaking of spam... i am hungry! THANKS!!!
Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
jemusic
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 16/12/2010 14:14:20
Messages: 286
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Offline

The manual is only part of the story. It is designed in such as way as to form a quick reference for something. It does that well for me. (Make sure you have all the updated manual bits too for 2.5 and 2.6 etc) I am sure they will update the manual from time to time.

There are other aspects to finding out about what Studio One can do.

One is all three books on Amazon. Two by 'Larry the O' and one by William. All are very very very good. I have learned heaps from those books. They are detailed and very thorough. They go from very start right up to very dvanced work.

All 4 Groove 3 vids are a must. William again has done an amazing job on this. There is so much stuff in there it is ridiculous. All the vids on the Presonus site are well worth watching. They cover lots of things that are not covered everywhere else. Even the replays of the NAMM show have got gems of info in there too. Lots of stuff to wade through but you will still find stuff you did not know.

The regular colums in Sound on Sound with 'Larry the O' are excellent. Often very deep and advanced for power users too. I suppose Larry is basically writing his next book. I cut them out and put them in a special Folder for advanced Studio One tips. Great reading from time to time.

Tons of info out there. Get out and find it!
[WWW]
Lokeyfly
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 07/06/2012 08:31:19
Messages: 1379
Location: N.Y.C.
Offline

I think we can all agree that we on a whole are not manual dependent, and S1 is not so deep a DAW that we have to resort to reading so much literature about it, when most users are pretty resourceful and uncover things as they go. Every DAW manufacturer expresses “learn by doing” which is a very good way to get started, and that makes perfect sense.

However, what is missing IMO is the program does have enough complexity, in that it does demand a resourceful documented base. That’s if it is to be taken seriously in the market, and yep, even the classroom. Though that may not be most users cup of tea, Good manuals do matter. As mentioned there are other resources as well, but the focus (I believe) is on a good working manual. Not just being dependent on outside support.

Yes, sometimes users have the time to experiment and learn by doing, and other times there is a need to get an answer and move on to completing the song, project, or question at hand. A concise manual can help get quick answers.

**If a manufacturer expresses easy user functionality but then falls short on that product's resource information, it does seem to conflict with the ease of use goal (to some extent). **

That might stir a few responses as “it’s easy, just find it”, or “C’mon how hard is it?”, but for some folks, they just may be:
A. Missing a feature they do not know exists, or it happens to be right under their nose, but miss it.
B. Are starting out, and would simply like to search the “lit” first rather than hunt & seek, bumbling around to find it (I’m admittedly am a bumbler, but at times often come up empty when I resort to the S1 manual.
C. Developing and getting better, but the missing items just can’t be found, literally because of the incompleteness of those items are not listed. This does not pertain to addendums, if the feature came out later). More on that.
D. I’ll stop, as I just might make it to M in this list without even trying (i.e. developing macros, shortcuts, key words, etc.).

One good look at a well documented manual typically drives the point home. There are some fabulous well documented manuals and some of us use them.

So you see we’re not just referring to addendums that cover what is missing, but content that is and was always missing, and still is.
That can’t be good, so if we were to be proactive and make this enormously superlative DAW better, what could be done to improve referencing needed items, we sometimes target to get an answer? You know that “Thank you for purchasing...” book that has all of the features, shortcuts, and good sound structure to it.

Considerations:
How about when each release comes out, along with the posted new release features, or an addendum, there be a grace period of a month or two after the release to ensure while any new feature kinks are being worked out, the manufacturer then release a latest “current version manual”. Accessing the new current version manual could be as obtainable as a notice in the S1 start window “News Feed”, or available through the exchange server (or even website). Even if it fell from space, I believe continued updates to the manual would benefit all and show that Presonus provide that kind of loyal service to its Studio One customer.

Another helpful consideration would be for Presonus to post a forum thread where they simply state “Hey, while we are making every attempt to better Studio One, if you find an item or keyword you feel should make it into the user manual, please post what you’ve found to be may be missing <here>”. That sort of position from a company is personable, and allows people to feel engaged in assisting and that they as users are a part of bettering the product. Like the Feature Request Forum, there is no guarantee (and even often mistakes, we all know), but requests and feedback are appreciated. There are no elitist users. so I’d say it would be helpful to make a group participation effort with a “Missing in the manual? feedback forum”. Anyone can often find an item missing. Heck only 2 weeks ago, I learned the double clicking on a wave in the browser pool [F10], then clicking any wave in the pool after plays that wave automatically (as opposed to selecting start/stop). It cropped up because someone asked. I’m thankful for the feedback. No I don’t suspect every little trick and nuance be documented. Heck, we point those things out already in “Tips & Tracks” and in general. But it’s nice to have more completeness in the manual then there is right now.

Lastly, I like that this manual business is being discussed at this time. It’s really about awareness by both Presonus, and it’s users. While a new version of Studio One is in the works (listen and you can here the little cherubs in the Keebler tree hard at work), I’d hate to see the next release while being stellar in features, be a tad short sighted in the manual department. We need to keep a full court press on this.

Notes: Better indexing, illustrations to each paragraph and features to be concise. Completeness, A manual forum for feedback, and continuous pro active effort upon new releases to keep users with a manual as good as its program. And that’s a damn good program at that. ...Sorry for the typos.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 10/05/2014 01:26:52

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
mistere
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 31/12/2010 17:33:49
Messages: 224
Location: Denver, Colorado USA
Offline

Lokeyfly wrote:

That might stir a few responses as “it’s easy, just find it”, or “C’mon how hard is it?”, but for some folks, they just may be:
A. Missing a feature they do not know exists, or it happens to be right under their nose, but miss it.
features, shortcuts, and good sound structure to it.


Like, for instance, getting back to our friendly Layers, the manual does tell those of us maniacal enough to comp a group of five acoustic guitars at once (many of you do this with drums and have even more tracks to deal with) that if you have a Group, and you start comping layers, any change you make is is reflected in all the layers.

Which is true ... if ...

You figure out that you have to have all the tracks highlighted in the track list (white as opposed to gray) for that to happen. Because the manual omits this crucial point. Which is why I kept making changes and finding out after lots of work the changes were only being made to one track, not all five. And kept thinking the program was doing random things as a result.

btw lots of great points in the above post! Looks like we're not hurting for writers on this forum.

I think what we're saying is that the programming is never an afterthought, it's always well thought out ... so why should the documentation be an afterthought for a great program?

Hey Presonus, all you have to do is ask ...
Custom PC with Asus P8P67 mobo | i2500K CPU | 16 GB Corsair memory | Corsair HX750 PS | Samsung 840 Pro OS drive | WD Black Audio drive | Win 7 64-bit | Mackie Onyx Blackbird | Presonus Eureka | Stellar CM6 mic | Avantone CK-40 stereo mic | S1 2.6 | PT 11 | Roland Jupiter 50 | PRS Custom 24 | Scuffham S-Gear amp modeler | SSD4 Platinum | Vocalign Project 3 | '64 Martin D18 | Presonus Monitor Station | Behringer Truth B3031A monitors | 2 Himalayan cats.
[WWW]
jpettit
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 13/01/2011 23:44:45
Messages: 2211
Location: Portland Oregon
Offline

Scoox wrote:I just used FoxyUtils to merge all the following PDFs:

Studio One 2 User Manual.pdf
Studio One Manual Addendum.pdf
Studio One Macro Toolbar.pdf
SoundSetBuilder User Guide.pdf
Studio One Nimbit Extension.pdf


Here is the resulting merged PDF file in case anyone wants it:

Studio One 2 User Guide (merged).pdf (19.4 MB)

Don't forget
Studio One 2.6.2 V 2.0 Signal Flow.pdf
Studio One Zero Latency Handbook.pdf

But I agree with an earlier post. The best manual might be project managed by Presonus but written by the experienced users
One of the reason people love the workflow of Studio One is 1) it is intuitive 2) They keep most of the complexity hidden.
There are many undocumented commands/key strokes that today you only pick up through advance tutorials or advance user tips..
S1 RoutingScreen2.6.2V2.0.pdf
 Description [Disk] Download
 Filesize 986 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  195 time(s)

Zero Latency Monitoring Hand book V1.1.pdf
 Description [Disk] Download
 Filesize 1664 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  147 time(s)

My Website
FRs: Tempo Detection & Mapping
Training Videos: Advance Melodyne, Creating Macros, 2.5 New Features, Signal Flow, Audio Timing Drum Replacement, Tempo Mapping, Useful Macros, Transformations, Layer/Takes/Comps
Simultaneous Audio Interfaces: Audiobox 1818VSL, RME 9632, Line 6 UX2, HF Presonus HP-60
DAWs: Studio One Pro 2.6.1, Reaper 4.5, Sonar X3c Pro, Adobe Audition CS5
Computer: OS:Win7 64-bit, Core i7 950, ASUS P6X58D Premium, 12GB DDR3 1600, GeForce GTX 470 (for CUDA) ,SSD Boot & Cache drives, 1 Tera 7200 RPM SATA II Audio & Video drives, UAD-2 x2
[WWW]
mwright137
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/10/2011 17:57:00
Messages: 3878
Location: Central PA
Offline

PreSonus hears you loud and clear. They are actively looking for a new tech writer. Any who are up for the task feel free to apply:

Documentation Manager - http://www.presonus.com/about-presonus/Careers
I am Sir Melvis Bacon, Knight of BaconHam Palace.

MacBook Pro 13. OS X Mavericks - version 10.9.3
StudioLive 16.4.2; StudioLive 328AI (x2)
AudioBox 22 VSL; BlueTube DP V2; FaderPort; Monitor Station; FireStudio Project (x2)
Studio One 2 Pro 2.6.2 (64 bit)
I use Gobbler to back up my projects.
[WWW]
skip jones
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 15:38:49
Messages: 1744
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Offline

Bought a piece of gear years back. On the front panel it had a toggle labeled "On/Off". It was not in the manual. Undocumented. I figured if I move it to the "On" position something would happen...If I didn't like it I would move it back to the "Off" position. Undocumented but turned out to be truly useful for this piece of gear. Now, I use it often...
http://support.presonus.com/home

Windows 7 X 32 (SP1) : AMD Phenom II X 4 945
ATI Radeon 5450 / 512 RAM
8GB RAM/1T SATA 7200 RPM

PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2, PreSonus FireStudio Project, PreSonus ABVSL 44, PreSonus ABVSL 1818, PreSonus Faderport

Yamaha S-08
Studio partner - Jack Russell named "Skooter"
PreSonus Studio One Professional 2.6.2
Fishman Triple Play / Logidy pedal
mistere
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 31/12/2010 17:33:49
Messages: 224
Location: Denver, Colorado USA
Offline

skip jones wrote:Bought a piece of gear years back. On the front panel it had a toggle labeled "On/Off". It was not in the manual. Undocumented. I figured if I move it to the "On" position something would happen...If I didn't like it I would move it back to the "Off" position. Undocumented but turned out to be truly useful for this piece of gear. Now, I use it often...


But what happens if you hit Shift + On?

I'm pondering my cubicle in the bayou ...
Custom PC with Asus P8P67 mobo | i2500K CPU | 16 GB Corsair memory | Corsair HX750 PS | Samsung 840 Pro OS drive | WD Black Audio drive | Win 7 64-bit | Mackie Onyx Blackbird | Presonus Eureka | Stellar CM6 mic | Avantone CK-40 stereo mic | S1 2.6 | PT 11 | Roland Jupiter 50 | PRS Custom 24 | Scuffham S-Gear amp modeler | SSD4 Platinum | Vocalign Project 3 | '64 Martin D18 | Presonus Monitor Station | Behringer Truth B3031A monitors | 2 Himalayan cats.
[WWW]
jBranam
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 24/01/2013 01:48:24
Messages: 1327
Location: Middle Georgia
Offline

yeah je... i hated the old fruit loops bible. it was basically a reference manual and it was like a JC Whitney catalog... very sparse description. i bet it wasn't bad for people that KNEW what it was talking about... but that thing drove me mad! lol

hey mr. wright... i will do the tech writing and drive you all BONKERS! lol it would have to have a count of edits per page just like on threads just so you guys could laugh. it would be filled with half thoughts... not to mention a few rants and raves! so consider yourselves lucky! hehe

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/05/2014 03:25:02

Jay


Window$ Pro 7 64-bit
AMD 965 Quad Core w/ 16 Gb RAM (Desk)
i5 Dual Core w/6 Gb RAM (Lap)
Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Focusrite 2i2, Audiobox USB
RODE NT-1A, MXL 910, Audio Technica Pro63, CAD C9 & TSM411

Slate Digital RC-Tube Console based on the RCA BC-6B Radio Desk, Slate Digital Virtual Bus Compressors, Waves Kramer Master Tape, Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter, Abbey Road Reel ADT, Melda Productions MAutoDynamicEQ and the Slate Digital FG-X (My Base Foundation Plugins) and a few other trinkets...





Most great things American came out of American garages. That fact alone bums me out 'cause I don't have a garage! ~Knot Hardly

For All You Twits @knot_hardly
CTStump
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 25/12/2011 20:58:22
Messages: 1154
Location: Dona Ana, New Mexico, in the U.S.of A.
Offline

I nominate jpettit, we would get great graphics and a well thought out Manual.... seriously.

I think someone volunteered earlier at least to compile it.
Presonus Studio One V2 Pro
Presonus Studio One 1.65 Pro
Sonar 8.5.3
Project 5 V2
Adobe Audition 3.01
Samplitude 6
Windows Vista X64
Various old Musical toys
My Macro's Kit "C.T.'s MIDI Pattern Builder Kit" Thread:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/31843.page
Lokeyfly
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 07/06/2012 08:31:19
Messages: 1379
Location: N.Y.C.
Offline

Well, it sounds like we're going in the right direction. Presonus are perfectly capable of sorting out what they need, and they have a host of helpful users who are on-hands with finding information out, as well as missing documented information.

jpettit has some invaluable block diagrams though I believe he has taken on for the benefit of so many, to sort of "reverse engineer" if you will, the circuit as he understands it to be. Don't get me wrong, they're wonderful diagrams! What should happen as reference material such as block diagrams should come from the source, through engineering at Presonus. That way the audio path, switching, and all of the circuit information is right from the known origin. in other words, not interpreted. Btw, I truly hope I stated that with the best intentions to all. I'm very thankful for jpettit's contributions.

From the engineers, the block or circuit diagrams are typically then graphically presented. Generally in the industry, some technical manuals are well documented by engineers, and there are times user manuals go out to customers that can be absolutely horrible, because the manuals were not properly presented. We've all encountered them. I recall some Roland Synth manuals in the 80's and 90's that you would pull your hair out trying to get information from. Well, Roland's manuals are slightly better now from utilizing better English, and are currently technically understandable. Great hardware from Roland, though poorly written manuals at that time.

skip jones wrote:
Bought a piece of gear years back. On the front panel it had a toggle labeled "On/Off". It was not in the manual. Undocumented. I figured if I move it to the "On" position something would happen...If I didn't like it I would move it back to the "Off" position. Undocumented but turned out to be truly useful for this piece of gear. Now, I use it often...

Great! Only whatever you do, NEVER PRESS THAT RED BUTTON!!!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/05/2014 13:43:57

In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
LMike
Baconator
[Avatar]

Joined: 19/02/2011 12:02:34
Messages: 8233
Offline

Interesting discussion.

Matt's comment about the movable loop is actually "in the manual", in section 1.2, where the manual tells users to open the Info Bar and hover and "discover features"...
... "displays all possible actions for the selected mouse tool, as well as showing the possible modifiers and their related actions. This helps you to discover features and provides a convenient, context-sensitive reference."
I'm fully on board for a better manual , to help the people who will actually read it. But we all know that won't stop the non-stop questions from the masses who don't even bother. Now let's wait 15 minutes for another thread about how to install and use the macro toolbar even though there's a dedicated PDF help file for it right on the help menu.

Even though the manual is missing some stuff it's pretty clear to me that some don't even bother to read and learn the stuff that's actually in there. But that's good for the community I suppose, it gives those who like to help the opportunity to help, so... it's all good.

I think at least a tiny part of all this is probably just boredom, new new updates to talk about.

As a general conceptual thing, it obviously makes sense to have a really good manual. Related to the current state of S1 as a purely practical matter, with it not being anywhere near being a really deep and/or complex app like Cubase or Photoshop that needs a 500 page manual, maybe not all that big a deal just yet.

Maybe we should just wait and see what the 3.0 manual looks like. They might be re-writing it already.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 10/05/2014 16:20:09

Studio One Tips For Newbs

"So.... Bitwig. I wonder what's queued up next in line on the drama list?"
 
Forum Index » Studio One General Discussion
Go to: