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cmebane
Prenoob

Joined: 29/07/2010 21:27:06
Messages: 21
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The iPhone/iPad AudioTools app from Digital 6 Studio has a speaker polarity test module. I believe it is around $5.
Jerryd
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
Messages: 698
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kibo wrote:hi jerry,

i only have SL1624 and 2 QSC K12s.

6 sm 58's
1 senheisser vocal(im at work acnt remember)
1 Sennheiser e 602 II for kick
2 Sennheiser e 604 for snare and toms
1 pair behringer C-2 condenser mics for overheads
3 behringer DI
1 presonus tube pre DI for bass

cabinets at church are yorkvilles. small amps cant remember the models. we use yorkville monitor speakers at church (8inch with horn,passive) with EV 100watts amps i think, that we use to use for FOH at church.

im really trying to hold my impulse to buy all the stuff that i want... please let me know wchich one would be important.

by the way our church holds maybe 400-450 people.

thanks,

kibo








Kibo -- Honestly your own personal set up should be in decent shape. You go straight out of your StudioLive into your K12's & KSubs. It doesn't get any simpler than that. You should already be at a great starting point. I would really have to hear it and maybe even throw SMAART on there to see what it looks like. I know there is a vocal boost switch on it somewhere. Does that help your sound? What is it about your set up that makes you wonder if it should be better or are you actually satisfied with it?

With any setup -- checking all cables for proper polarity is a must. A multi-tester would do the job for that. I don't think you have any speaker wire in your set up do you? I didn't see any monitors. So we are left with the SL which if you have the latest firmware you should be good & then the K12's will need to be checked.

I like LowTech's idea of borrowing one or renting one for the day. Shoot -- have your church purchase one because with that set up -- they are going to need it.

Now for the church set up -- Yorkville's are great speakers from what I hear. If the church doesn't have a speaker management device or something that controls the speakers besides a graphic EQ -- then it is an absolute must they get one. Preferably the DR 260. As far as the amps go: are you sure that the amp is only 100watts? How about 1000watts?

Here is the deal on speakers and amps. Whatever the speaker is rated -- let's say the top speaker is rated at 600 watts RMS @ 8 Ohms. The proper amp size for that box would be AT LEAST 1.5 - 2 times that RMS value. Some others say 2 -4 times the RMS. So an amp would need to have at least 900 - 1200 watts available for that one 8 ohm box. A 1,000 watt EV amp would not be big enough. I need to see a spec sheet for the amps involved. If that amp is dividing up the 1000watts so that only one cab gets 500watts and the other 500watts then it is underpowered severely. Make sense so far? Speakers really come to life when they have the right power on them. They can also fly apart if not set up properly.

See if you can get me the model numbers on the amps and speakers PLUS whatever crossover they use and we can put together a plan of action for them. Of course we can back it up with information from many sources so you won't have to CONVINCE the congregation or board but they will see for themselves.

Let me know Kibo. Hey -- you have a nice set up. I don't know that you really need to buy anything right now.

kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
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hi jerry,

(Does that help your sound? What is it about your set up that makes you wonder if it should be better or are you actually satisfied with it?)

most of the time when im using it, i only place it on normal. ive tried vocal boosts when only using it in the basement for practice. when i play the same song at church, it feels and sounds like its so echoey. it maybe our church surroundings. but sound is great. i just have to learn how to mix better and the feedback issues too.

FOH speaker church (yorkville CC2285)
FOH Amp( AP1020)


thanks so much. i will be back. stil have to go to work.

kibo



Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
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Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
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kibo wrote:lowtech,

ok im going to try to do that. im in toronto.

let you know soon on wgats new!

kibo


Toronto...Montreal...Moose Jaw...Vancouver...It's all Canadian to me.

Also, If you're saying it sounds like you have a lot of echoes then your problem may be elsewhere. The feedback could be coming from the reflections in the room. What kind of sound treatment is there. What kind of dimensions is the room. Is there a concrete floor? Is the room really echo heavy without the system?

Hate to throw more ideas into the mix but I fought something like this years ago in a church and having someone come in with real teting equipment to find all the problems fixed all the problems. How hard wold it be to get one speaker and the rest of the gear outdoors for some testing and adjusting in an area with out reflections? Get the system perfect first and then concentrate on the room.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/08/2010 22:38:46

http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
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hi lowtech,

i ve tried it once indoor in a coin laundry. smaller a bit compared to our church and it was very nice. ceilings though were lower compared to the churchs'.

im afraid i couldnt do much with the churchs' acoustics. we just had our renovations and people are just taking care of each others concern without collborating the needs of everybody. i even have a hard time suggesting to them with equipments. all the suggestions i had were not heard and we the praise and worship team would use the majority of the PA system.

by the way im the president of the praise and worship team and i play drums but play keyboard most of the time coz there are so many drummers.

im still a bit busy this week. and i was trying the Systune and n luck but i will try it again.

im trying to upload a picture but i dont know how. be back in a while. still have to go somewhere.

@jerry, is till dont have the Ksubs. i only have 2 K12s. i think the next buy would be subs right? before Driverack 260.

thanks a lot,

kibo

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/08/2010 23:47:43

Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
Jerryd
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
Messages: 698
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Kibo -- it looks like the speaker is rated at 300 watts program. The amp is 160 watts of power at 8 ohms per side. Do you know if the amp is bridged and if the tops are run in mono?

It gets confusing when one company uses "RMS" and another uses "Program Power". RMS is average power and Program power is most likely close to double the RMS value. So I guess those Yorkville's need at least 300 watts per top then. If you are only giving them 160 watts per side then it is under powered.

If they are bridged mono at 4 ohms -- you will get the most power to the tops. 800 watts to be exact @ 4 ohms. Each box would get 400 watts and that would be more than the program power. You could blow the speakers up if your gain structure isn't set right. But then again, underpowered is really bad too.

In stereo mode -- probably not enough power. In bridge mode -- a lot more power for sure.

If overall speech intelligibilty is the main concern -- go mono. If you have to stay in stereo for some reason then they really need a bigger amp.

What do they use for a crossover? Do they have any graphic EQ's on board somewhere?
Jerryd
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:01:24
Messages: 698
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Oh you don't have K Subs......... yeah get them before Driverack 260.
kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
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hi jerry,

we ran stereo. sometimes it gets confusing on how to match the amps and the speakers. anyway i didnt have anything to do with it when they bought it coz i was fighting for k12s. i will try to talk them over it. the horns were gone already 2 weeks in using it. they didnt even notice it. i just told them that it didnt souond right on the left side. i dont know if its the bulb or the horn... never run the system with intruments. just the pulpit mic.

no crossovers for it. i think only passives in the speaker cabinets.

with regards to the subs, can i get only one?

the place is roughly 30ft height x 40ft width x 120ft length at church.

i only tried the system maybe 7-8 times at church since march. i may try it 2 weeks from now. (my system) i will try to learn systune to try it and the phase tester too.

thanks,

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
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Now that we know the dimensions of the church. How high up are the speakers. Are they mounted to poles or are they suspended?
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
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can somebody teach me how to attach a picture in here.

thanks,

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
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Just found out myself. Thanks to Motoko

Get yourself an online photo sharing account (like Flickr or other).

Upload the pics there.

Copy the URL of the image you want to use.

Click the image button above the text block where you type response messages (works different for quick reply).

Paste the URL after the text that is input. Click image button again and you're done.

Should give you something like this (just not with my kids in it)...ain't he cute...the phones were my wife's idea, I swear it.

" border="0" />
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
Offline

hi lowtech,

hes so cute! wish i could have a boy too. i have two girls.

thanks,

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
Offline

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52730960@N07/4862770443/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 05/08/2010 16:56:27

Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
Offline



http://www.flickr.com/photos/52730960@N07/4863385834/in/photostream

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 05/08/2010 17:03:23

Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
kibo
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 23:08:13
Messages: 401
Location: Toronto, Canada
Offline

hi lowtech and jerry,

here is a picture of our church. the yorkville speakers are not yet there but they placed it hanged on where you could see the speaker wire came out going to our old EVFR-12 speaker. as you could see, the place has all parallel walls and nothing seems to absorb the sound. its echoey even when you try to sing without mics.

thanks,

kibo
Studiolive 1642, Tube Pre, QSC K12s, Imac 21.5 8GB 3.06 Ghz, MacbookPro 13" i5, Blue Spark Condenser Mic
 
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