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NOT Done with it! (Studio One, that is)
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idolworkshop
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Joined: 06/02/2014 10:23:39
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I gave it a try. I gave it several months. I wanted to like it...

I purchased the AudioBox 44VSL - which is a very excellent product - and with it came bundled Studio One with upgrade to Producer. I thought, sure, what the heck, it's free and looks cool. As of today, this product has effectively beaten the love of music recording out of me. Don't worry, I'll get that love back because tomorrow I'm buying Cubase.

The lack of very basic features like step record and in-place editing of waveforms is bad enough. The spontaneous square-wave-pop-crack audio glitch tonight which savaged my studio monitors at more than double the set program level is another. I had to close the program to stop the assault on those poor speakers. I guarantee you it wasn't Kontakt, nor was it the simple bass track I'd laid down and was trying to play on top of.

I cannot afford a "free" program that destroys monitors.

I started in 1988 on a Mac SE with MOTU Performer. That program - over 25 years ago - was a better sequencer than this one has in it. Not by a little bit, but a lot. Over time I drifted away from the music scene and had only recently gotten back into it. I'd been using Vegas 8 for multi-channel audio recording and, even though it's foremost a video production tool, it is a better mixer than this. And 100% reliable on all counts. It only lacks sequencing. So, Cubase.

I'm sorry. I have to be brutally honest. Your hardware is awesome. I don't think software is your gig.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 09/02/2014 00:21:29

jemusic
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You don't have any idea what you are talking about. It is one of the best programs on the planet right now.
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idolworkshop
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Thanks for your input.
jemusic
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It always amuses me when people decide they hate the program and are going to drop it for something else why they complain here. Why don't you just go away quietly? Who cares what you think. If you expressed a genuine interest in trying to make it work for you then there are lots of marvelous people who will help you do that.

This is the last place to complain. What do you think we are all going to do. Stop using it and buy something else. There are tens of thousands of people here who use it and love it and don't have any issues with it. Some of us are even professionals (myself) and earn a living from using it. Did you upgrade to the full version. The only version really worth using is the full Pro version.

The problem is with you not the program. You will find something wrong with what ever you are going to use in fact. Look inwards rather that outwards. But good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/02/2014 11:24:04

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Speranza
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May I ask what kind of input you would like, genuine question...?
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idolworkshop
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jemusic wrote:It always amuses me...

I'm glad I could be of service to you.

...when people decide..

Oh, you mean I'm not the only one?

...they hate the program and are going to drop it for something else why they complain here. Why don't you just go away quietly?

Only praise allowed here? Ne'er a discouraging word? Sounds rather cultish (and amateurish) to me. I doubt the people at PreSonus feel this way. Or at least I hope they don't. I'd certainly want to hear it all, the good and the bad.

Who cares what you think.

Obviously, you do. You've made a little over a hundred posts in four years and you just invested two of them on me.

If you expressed a genuine interest in trying to make it work for you then there are lots of marvelous people who will help you do that.

I'm sure that's true. I'm not as invested in this product as you appear to be, and I certainly don't intend to become that way. As I mentioned, I have used other products and found them markedly superior. I did not need the handholding of any marvelous people to achieve full satisfaction. Perhaps that will inform you a bit as to how the rest of the world operates, outside this forum.

This is the last place to complain.

Really? "General Discussion"... I'm sorry, is there a specific complaint forum? Perhaps you could direct me to it.

What do you think we are all going to do. Stop using it and buy something else.

Uh, no. I'm simply expressing myself. Given the reaction thus far, this is not the sort of user group I'd want anything to do with. You are confirming for me beyond a shadow of doubt that this is not a product I wish to be associated with - and I do not hold PreSonus responsible for that. I honestly didn't expect to be well received, nor do I care if I am. I'm giving my straight up impression of my experience with it.

There are tens of thousands of people here who use it and love it and don't have any issues with it.

Well, bully for them. That's not my experience. I have described a few issues with it and, as I look through these forums, I see quite a number of problems reported, in direct contradiction to your implication that this is an issue-free product. Of course there are problems with every product, and I'm quite sure that Steinberg's forum is littered with problem reports, too. The difference is, I'm not going to bother to become so invested in this product as to be in denial as to the existence of shortcomings, as you appear to be. Not even with Cubase. Five hundred dollars is not squat to me to pay for a professional program; if it it doesn't work for me (which I doubt is the case as I've already had considerable hands on time with it), I'll get something else.

Worst comes to worst, I already know that Vegas 8 is a more reliable audio workstation and better suited to my usage characteristics. I'll use Cubase for the sequencer and be happy! Which puts to lie this particularly offensive armchair attempt at psychoanalyzing me:

The problem is with you not the program. You will find something wrong with what ever you are going to use in fact. Look inwards rather that outwards. But good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.

That's not even worthy of reply. Instead, I will direct my remarks to any PreSonus employee who might happen upon this thread: I love the AudioBox. My dealings with your company have been top notch and you will get future business from me, fear not. But you - not me - came within a gnat's ass of trashing some admittedly low end monitors, which still cost twice what your programs does IF I'd paid for it. I'm not going to spend who knows how many hours trying to wrangle out what happened blah blah blah because I've already made a tactical decision not to. I have had enough experience with audio software of all sorts over the years to know it isn't worth it to me when I can drop a little more cash on something else and see if that doesn't fix it.

Some of us are even professionals (myself) and earn a living from using it
.
Good for you. I am sure there are plenty of people who say the same with respect to competing products, perhaps even an order of magnitude greater number of people than those who can say that about Studio One. I, on the other hand, am not a music professional, I am a hobbyist. I'm a software engineer by profession, specifically writing code (and code which writes code!) which goes into invasive surgical instruments. If any of the code I'd written over the last twenty years had done the functional equivalent of what Studio One did to me tonight, there would be a lawsuit and possibly a product recall. I'm simply stating my opinion, harmlessly, for the record.

I don't expect you to be savvy to that level of quality control, but I am. I'm not a novice to software operation; hardly! Aside from playing with some of the first commercial sequencers ever made (which I stress were better than this), I've even written a real-time audio synthesis engine to go into a surgical control device to give meaningful aural feedback of critical operational parameters to the surgeon. I've been involved in half-dozen major software projects involving billions of dollars of net revenue. I've designed user interfaces, architected databases and answered the damn phone one on one with users of my software.

I'm not satisfied with this product. Okay?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 06/02/2014 12:42:06

Palaios
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i find hard to believe software destroying monitors.. sounds like having flu from computer virus
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idolworkshop
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Speranza wrote:May I ask what kind of input you would like, genuine question...?

Me? No. No question. Just expressing my opinion on the way out. I did mean it when I said I'm done with it.

Thank you, though, for not jumping on my case right out of the gate. As I indicated to the other fine member who took care to respond, I'm not trying to change the minds of anyone here, merely saying what's on my mind. Not looking for coddling or any other BS, I just think a separated voice coil was worth a "two cents" parting thought.

Yes, there is a finite chance that "something else" (the infamous driver!) caused this high decibel excrement, but realistically, no. You needn't take my word for it, but I will take my own. Not asking for a fix, because I'm done, but I will describe for anyone who's interested. Two tracks, one instrument, one mono audio. Approximately 150 seconds recorded on the audio in one take, GuitarRig5 on a single effects bus. NI FM8 on instrument track with preview audio, QuNexus controller as input. Was approximately 15 seconds into playback while doing a keyboard line when all hell broke loose. Muting the tracks did not stop it, stopping playback did not stop it, closing Studio One did.

I've logged thousands of hours with GuitarRig on multiple computers, multiple VST hosts, no such problem. Zero audio problems in fact. Far less time with FM8, but thousands of hours with NI products and nothing like this. Lots of time on this workstation with a large variety of audio software, no problems at all. Only a couple of hundred hours with Studio One, tops, and this. Draw your own conclusion.

It's not the only problem, it's the straw that broke the camel's back. I find the interface somewhat non-intuitive and dissimilar to what I'm accustomed to. That's a fit issue, basically ergonomics, I don't blame the software for that. But it factors in to never achieving a comfort level sufficient to feel vested in the product. By contrast, even "lowbrow" freeware like SynthEdit (which has given me countless headaches and audio gltches but no trashed speakers) fit well enough that I do try to work through any issues.

Thanks for asking.
idolworkshop
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Palaios wrote:i find hard to believe software destroying monitors.. sounds like having flu from computer virus

You should have been here. My wife was in the bathroom, closed door, 20 feet away and was highly distressed that I was not succeeding in turning that damn noise off IMMEDIATELY.

I admit "trashing" the speakers is slight hyperbole. They appear to be okay, although I haven't exactly had the opportunity to exercise them over an entire spectrum. Now get this: I find it hard to believe, too! I've never heard those monitors that loud before, not even close. Usually, I regret not having a little more power in the mix, they are not loud speakers. The woofers were popping and slamming full travel. If the speakers are okay, it's a testament to their quality and durability.

Indeed, I've never heard a sound like that come out of any speakers, ever, so I also found it a little hard to believe.

It went away when Studio One went away.

And, no, it's not a virus. I have ESET Nod32 on there but do not have it active because it's an audio-only workstation and I don't get on the internet except for product downloads precisely because I don't want a virus and can't afford to have CPU suckage and disk thrashing realtime antivirus protection induces. So, no, no virus.
Lokeyfly
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Idol workshop wrote: .... I guarantee you it wasn't Kontakt, nor was it the simple bass track I'd laid down and was trying to play on top of.
I know you probably don't have time to explain but I guarantee it wasn't the S1 software itself that was inflicting your speakers. Possibly a driver issue or something along those lines. Easily remedied.
Anyway good luck, though I think you could leave without trying to smear something. If so many users of S1 are not having the same issues, then what's to be said except good luck. Take care.
In the words of the late great Graucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"

S1 Pro 2.5, Laptop: VAIO i7, 8Gb, Win 7 X64, SP1. Supporting software, too much to list. Audio Interface: 22 VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Audiophile 192 PCI-e, Controllers: Novation SL Mk II, M-Audio Axiom, Guitar controllers by Roland GR-50, Percussion controllers: Roland Octapad II, Akai MPD-18. Guitars by: Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Martin, Taylor, & Yamaha
idolworkshop
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Lokeyfly wrote:
Idol workshop wrote: .... I guarantee you it wasn't Kontakt, nor was it the simple bass track I'd laid down and was trying to play on top of.
I know you probably don't have time to explain but I guarantee it wasn't the S1 software itself that was inflicting your speakers. Possibly a driver issue or something along those lines. Easily remedied.
Anyway good luck, though I think you could leave without trying to smear something. If so many users of S1 are not having the same issues, then what's to be said except good luck. Take care.

Thanks for your (mostly) measured response. Re: drivers - see above. It's ALWAYS the driver and I'm not being at all sarcastic. Audio drivers do ALL of the grunt work so, if there's a problem, they are involved. The issue is application level interaction with those drivers... without running an in-circuit emulator debugger - while that same error is reproduced - there's simply no way of establishing causative factor in one layer versus the other. What matters in effective diagnosis here is a probablistic assessment based on actuals: what application does this? After all, they're all using the same driver, but only one did this.

Guess whose audio driver it is, anyway? I guess you missed the part where I said I was running an AudioBox. PreSonus had control of my audio chain front to back in this instance. Now, you can try to blame Windows services, and there may be some truth to that, but that's just the same thing as blaming the driver. If nothing else in any other configuration on this system or any other has done this to me, where exactly do you think the finger should point?

And this is why I said your response was "mostly" measured. I'm not smearing their product, I'm offering my assessment of it. In fact, my assessment seems to be far more technically grounded than any response I'm getting. That my assessment is not exclusively positive seems to be quite distressing to those who've responded to this point. If I were here for help for this problem - oh, and asked ever so nicely and humbly - what would you be telling me?

This?
Possibly a driver issue or something along those lines. Easily remedied

Uh, yeah. That's zero help, I'm sorry to say, You've pinpointed absolutely nothing and offered no concrete solution at all. You don't even seem to be aware that this is a 'black swan' event; there's no reasonable expectation of being able to reproduce it with sufficient frequency to assure a fix should one be proffered, No one here seems to even believe it can happen, must be something I did. I'm sorry, but your blithe assurances are kind of worthless in light of those sorts of responses, Incredulity != effective troubleshooting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/02/2014 13:33:03

jBranam
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i would have to agree... and not putting you down idol... but the software is NOT your problem. probably more of a conflict in drivers if anything. understand that if something happens to 2 people out of let's say 1000 people... it is more or less something pertaining to the 2 not the 1000. that is only common sense.

but it does piss me off when one person can have a problem... then blame that problem on something else like a software package when it is more than likely an isolated problem only affecting that person. there are way too many people that do not have nor have ever had a problem with this software... the odds are stacked against your diagnosis. sorry

did you do a fresh install on your system before blaming software? reformat your hard drive and put just the software and drivers on it that are giving you problems... then see if you still have the problem. i think you are having driver conflicts which has nothing to do with what you are blaming the problem on.

good luck in the future and sorry you had problems... but if i were you... i would look into your system more closely. also... drivers can mess things up... but software only calls for those drivers. it is impossible for the software to be your problem. you can believe me or not... but i programmed computers for over half of my youth and i do know what i am talking about.

take care and good luck with cubase...

p.s. sad thing is... no one PC is the same as another. we all have different parts and different programs/drivers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 06/02/2014 14:58:47

Jay


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CTStump
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In my opinion Jemusic was soft in his response.... considering the title of your thread..... on a forum dedicated to support of the product in question.

You can't post something like your OP without expecting these types of responses coming about so no need to be surprised some User's passion in the defense of the product will be displayed.

JBranam is correct it is a conflict do to software whether its Studio One or a driver you need to narrow it down BEFORE you make any decision and investigate a solution.

That's why we are here, to find solutions or provide them,
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idolworkshop
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jBranam, you make some good points, thanks for a thoughtful reply.

jBranam wrote:i would have to agree... and not putting you down idol... but the software is NOT your problem. probably more of a conflict in drivers if anything.

I don't disagree with that, if you'll note I acknowledged the inevitability of it involving interaction with the driver(s) above. But the key word here is 'interaction'; it's quite meaningless to finger the drivers in isolation when considerable usage of other programs did not produce this result. Even if there is some hypothetical deficiency in the driver, it is THIS application (and so far only this) which has teased the alleged deficiency into a catastrophic bug. In a lot of operation.

understand that if something happens to 2 people out of let's say 1000 people... it is more or less something pertaining to the 2 not the 1000. that is only common sense.

Agreed. All I can say to that is - if it is a latent bug and of 'black swan' orders of probability, I'll be interested in hearing your take on it when it happens to you, and you become the third of the 1000.

but it does piss me off when one person can have a problem...

You know what pisses me off? In 30 years of intensive computer operation, with a lot of it being audio-related, nothing like this has ever happened before. I don''t think it's all that far out of line to blame the one app that was running when it happened, And the app that, when stopped, made the problem go away.

then blame that problem on something else like a software package when it is more than likely an isolated problem only affecting that person. there are way too many people that do not have nor have ever had a problem with this software... the odds are stacked against your diagnosis. sorry

Well, again, I agree with a substantial portion of what you say regarding the circumstances of occurrence. But, as you'll see below, mine is as plain vanilla set up as they come; if this is somehow (and it certainly could be) the root of the problem, then maybe I need some custom hot-rodded one-of-a-kind config to make this program work (like other programs have for countless hours without fail)? I don't need that kind of product, either.

did you do a fresh install on your system before blaming software?

I've never had to do that with any audio software, ever, and have only had to do that a handful of times with all software generally. That includes end-user apps like MS Office, OpenOffice, through IDEs like Visual Studio 6 to 12 and Eclipse w Java/Ruby/Python, to hundreds of freeware and vertical apps for mathematical/engineering analysis and so on. This should not be anyone's go-to first solution for a problem.

...reformat your hard drive...

Are you joking? I'm beginning to think you're simply coming from the perspective of being accustomed to inferior software. This is not even a sensible remedy for the problem described - which is essentially perfect functionality of all audio services until Studio One went haywire - with the help of a driver or not. You would have me go to the rather substantial time and effort of reformat and then run another several hundred hours or so just to gain the slightest measure of confidence the problem has been addressed? That's not diagnosis and troubleshooting - that's firing a shotgun at the problem and hoping it goes away.

... and put just the software and drivers on it that are giving you problems... then see if you still have the problem. i think you are having driver conflicts which has nothing to do with what you are blaming the problem on.

The problem with this theory is that I have a very common configuration: Dell XPS8700, Win7, completely box stock. This is not an oddball one-off machine I built myself, there are untold numbers of these things out there. And, being as I'm running 44VSL, there is as much PreSonus control over the audio chain as humanly possible.

good luck in the future and sorry you had problems... but if i were you... i would look into your system more closely. also... drivers can mess things up... but software only calls for those drivers. it is impossible for the software to be your problem. you can believe me or not... but i programmed computers for over half of my youth and i do know what i am talking about.

And, as I mentioned above, I've been a software engineering professional for about three decades and I don't fully agree with your assessment. It is NOT impossible for the software to be a problem, and to stridently assert such only dimishes your credibility on the subject. It is quite possible for application software to crash the driver, it happens all the time in countless areas! This is a multithreaded program with hard real time demands; it's actually logical to suspect the application software having a role, particularly given the circumstances described, if not being the sole cause.

take care and good luck with cubase...

Thanks, I will. And no offense meant by my tone. I'm an amateur musician but by no means an amateur when it comes to software. I do not say the things I have here lightly. I have had a singularly unpleasant experience, and it is to this point only associated with one discriminating factor. If it ever happens again, I'll come back on here and eat my words and take my lumps. Unless or until that happens, not taking any lumps over this.

p.s. sad thing is... no one PC is the same as another. we all have different parts and different programs/drivers.

Yes. I'm always taking my chances with everything, just happened to get burned one time with this. Once was enough.
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idolworkshop wrote:I gave it a try. I gave it several months. I wanted to like it...
Sorry to hear that. Just as an FYI, the registration database is tied to the forum registration database so if you have been using Artist for 'several months' the moderators would know if that's true or not from it's initial registration date or if it's more hyperbole like "destroying monitors".
As of today, this product has effectively beaten the love of music recording out of me. Don't worry, I'll get that love back because tomorrow I'm buying Cubase.
It's a great application, go for it.
I'd been using Vegas 8 for multi-channel audio recording and, even though it's foremost a video production tool, it is a better mixer than this.
I have to respectfully disagree there being a Vegas 10 owner myself. Not even fully comparable as relates to music multitracking and mixing.
I'm sorry. ... I don't think software is your gig.
Lol. Software is obviously their gig, as they've been doing it for a living for quite a long time now. As someone who pretends to be giving honest and mature criticism, that comment is a little bit personal no?

Best of luck to you my friend. Cubase is a fine application.
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