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Firewire Returns / Accompaniment Tracks
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jacobtraynham
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Joined: 12/11/2013 20:50:49
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Our church recently purchased a StudioLive 24.4.2 and so far, I really love it. However, I'm trying to figure out the best way to play music from the computer it's connected to, so I'm curious how others are setting up their boards for this. Each of our services includes a choir "special" and at least one "solo" performance, both of which use accompaniment tracks. These are usually played from iTunes, but occasionally the music is coming from a video being played in ProPresenter. I need to have separate control over the Aux/Monitor mixes and the Main outs.

On our old analog board, the computer audio came in on a stereo channel, and I could adjust the overall trim, then adjust the monitor mix and use a fader for how much came out of the mains. I would like to get this level of control with the StudioLive, and have tried several things all with pros and cons:

- Using the 2 Track In, I have control over the overall volume coming in, but that also controls how much is being sent to the aux and mains at the same time. I don't have separate control over those mixes, and if I turn it up loud enough to be audible in the monitors, then it's blaring out of the mains.

- Using FireWire sends through channels 23-24 (this is what we have been using), I have independent control over the monitor mix and the mains, but the only way to control the overall volume is to adjust the volume in iTunes. This is tedious and imprecise and not limited to just iTunes (eg. if we are playing a video with sound through ProPresenter, we have to adjust the volume in ProPresenter).

- Some crazy routing from Aux 9/10 through patch cables to Aux Input A routed through Subgroup 1/2 ... I don't even remember what I did .. was just one of the things I had tested and was very complicated. I think it worked, but I don't remember the pros/cons of it.

- Routing from Aux 9/10 to channels 23-24 (this is what I just set up to try and see if I like it) - I have the computer set to play channels 25-26 (2 Track In), but the FireWire button on 2 Track In is NOT engaged. Aux 9/10 have been linked and the FireWire mix has been turned all the way up. Aux 9/10 output POTs are set at Unity. I then have some physical patch cables running from Aux 9/10 out to channels 23-24 In, and the Trims are set to 12:00 (which I'm guessing is unity for Line Ins). I now have independent control of the monitor mixes and have a fader to control the level in the mains. If I need more or less overall audio from the computer, I can twist the 2 Track In knob. This seems to do everything I want at the cost of a couple of Aux outs, a couple of channels in, and a slightly complicated routing.

So, sorry for the long post here, but I'm curious to know what other people are doing in this situation and if there is anything easier to do.

Thanks,
Jake
andrestapia7@gmail.com
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Joined: 14/11/2013 23:08:49
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I personally wouldn't even fuzz about it. The same way you used to do it with the analog system, would be the way I'd set it up; unless you need those channels for something else. I did it that way at my church, reason why is that I get full control over gain, monitors and effects, as well as the fat channel. just my 2 cents
gadget69
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Well, the 2 track return is pre-routed to the mains, hit the firewire button in the 2 track return. I have a DJ program in the computer and music... load it up and hit play and away you go. You will need to go into UC and find the output routing and drag and drop the 2track return to 25 and 26...if you haven't already
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jacobtraynham
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Joined: 12/11/2013 20:50:49
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Yes, I already know the 2 Track In is pre-routed to the mains, I covered that in my first bullet point. The problem with that is that if I turn the 2 Track In knob up loud enough to get any kind of control over what is sent to the monitors, then it's way too loud coming out of the mains.

Jake
bolojr2002
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Joined: 06/01/2013 00:47:41
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1. question do you also use the same computer for recording the service
2. have you tired changing your output on the computer to the head phone socket and then running it into the mixer.
adessmith
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Joined: 31/03/2012 09:37:58
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bolojr2002 wrote:1. question do you also use the same computer for recording the service
2. have you tired changing your output on the computer to the head phone socket and then running it into the mixer.


This is what we are currently doing...
We have firewire coming in to record via capture, and the headphone jack going out to two channels on our SL. (Just make sure the SL is NOT the default playback device on the computer)

Our problem is, we record on the same machine, and if we play audio via the headphone jack WHILE capture is running, itunes glitches and skips constantly.
Basically, we have to pause the capture recording when using iTunes. I don't know yet if this is an issue with exceeding the limitations of the HDD, the OLD CPU, or the lack of ram. It's a really old laptop, and it doesn't even meet the minimum requirements for the latest versions of VSL and capture.
I am curious if this would work better on faster system, or can I never expect to run iTunes at all while capture is recording, regardless of the computer?
sjc193
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Joined: 30/03/2012 20:51:58
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jacobtraynham wrote:Yes, I already know the 2 Track In is pre-routed to the mains, I covered that in my first bullet point. The problem with that is that if I turn the 2 Track In knob up loud enough to get any kind of control over what is sent to the monitors, then it's way too loud coming out of the mains.

Jake


That's weird, I have not found the 2/track knob to be connected to the AUX outs at all, it should only be controling how much is going to Mains. The AUX outs should be set by the firewire input on the aux mix. Do you know where that is? Aux flip mode on the board, or just look for the firewire sign on the iPad for an aux mix.

Your not doing something right, you should be able to level those out seperately.

That said, I bring the L and R into channels so that I can add fat channel eq to it, unless I'm out of channels

Steve
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adessmith
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I believe the 2 track in knob acts like gain for that input, with no corresponding fader. I think the aux flip controls you have for 2 track input are impacted by the position of the 2 track knob. The original poster probably needs to go into the aux flip mode of the auxes and turn down the relative level of the 2 track input.
sjc193
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OK, after looking into this a little more, there is a TAPE IN and a FIREWIRE IN on the AUX flip mode mix, I always use the FIREWIRE IN for this and it brings the computer music into my monitors independent of anything that is set on the board, this is true even when I have it routed to channels 15 and 16 and not 2-track in(I have 16.4.2), but I assume it would be the same if it was set to the 2-track in or any other channel for that matter. My belief (but I could be wrong) is that anything coming into the board through firewire is automatically summed to MONO and sent to the firewire input for each AUX, you can then just turn that up in the AUX mix, it shouldn't matter whether you even have the firewire button on or not in the 2-track or channels that you have it routed in VSL, it is seperate and I have no problem making it loud as well really loud in the monitors, I use this as a test when setting up to make sure I wired the monitors up to the correct channels. Hope that helps,

Steve
StudioLive 16.4.2 in 10U + slant top OSP case
rackmount Windows 8 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
Ipad2 Wifi Griffin Survivor Case
Studio One 2.5 Pro
2 Turbosound TMS-1's (Mains)
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
2 Yamaha S115V's (for floor monitors),2 Yamaha BR 15's (for floor monitors)
3 Behringer 12" floor monitors
3 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
1 DBX Driverack 260
1 DBX 231S Graphic Eq
10 58/57 mics, 1 beta52 kick mic, 20 mic stands
2 e609 guitar amp mics
2 Radial J48 Active DI's
2 Blizzard Puck FAB 5 led lights
1 DMXIS usb to dmx controller
1 Temor 1 Alto 1 Soprano 1 Clarinet
1 Sheraton semi hollowbody electric
1 pedalboard with lots of pedals favorites are javaboost into tube screamer
1 Fender Deluxe Amp
2 Acoustic guitars, 1 elec bass, 1 acoustic bass, 1 bazooki
3 mixers and lots of other stuff I don't use in the closet
1 beer holder that clamps to the side of my mic stand with my stage name printed on it "Swingin' Steve"
dreamweaver2187
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Joined: 01/03/2014 00:46:25
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sjc193 wrote:OK, after looking into this a little more, there is a TAPE IN and a FIREWIRE IN on the AUX flip mode mix, I always use the FIREWIRE IN for this and it brings the computer music into my monitors independent of anything that is set on the board, this is true even when I have it routed to channels 15 and 16 and not 2-track in(I have 16.4.2), but I assume it would be the same if it was set to the 2-track in or any other channel for that matter. My belief (but I could be wrong) is that anything coming into the board through firewire is automatically summed to MONO and sent to the firewire input for each AUX, you can then just turn that up in the AUX mix, it shouldn't matter whether you even have the firewire button on or not in the 2-track or channels that you have it routed in VSL, it is seperate and I have no problem making it loud as well really loud in the monitors, I use this as a test when setting up to make sure I wired the monitors up to the correct channels. Hope that helps,

Steve


Steve, I'm a little late to this, so hopefully all you pros have got him all settled. But.......my 2 cents:

jacobtraynham wrote:Our church recently purchased a StudioLive 24.4.2 and so far, I really love it. However, I'm trying to figure out the best way to play music from the computer it's connected to, so I'm curious how others are setting up their boards for this. Each of our services includes a choir "special" and at least one "solo" performance, both of which use accompaniment tracks. These are usually played from iTunes, but occasionally the music is coming from a video being played in ProPresenter. I need to have separate control over the Aux/Monitor mixes and the Main outs.


You should be able to go into the WDM controls on your windows machine (via the PreSonus launcher app) and set your L/R on you computer to output to the last two channels of your board (23/24). If you have use an Apple, look around, I'm sure someone here can tell you how to send your L/R to those two channels. You punch then FireWire input on those two channels on your board, use the MAIN computer volume while you have music playing to set the gain structure to where you want it (obviously the gain pot on the preamp won't affect a FireWire input). You can then use individual program's volume controls to equalize them all out so all output at the same relative level. After you have the "gain" set where you want it you then can use the Aux Mix function to route these two channels to where you want them in your Pre-Fade monitor mixes and the channel faders will only control the output to your board's Main mix. Unless you don't have the channels available, but I assume you do since you state that's the way you used to do it on your analog board, I feel this is the way to go as you have full FatChannel capabilities then (and also no routing uncertainties).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/03/2014 03:41:10

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klarkkentster
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Joined: 12/11/2012 18:36:00
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We switched from a windows to a mac....


Where do you go to route the 2-track in a Mac ?



Or route music from the mac to a couple channels ?
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gadget69
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The audio midi routing...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
 
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