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rickhebert
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Joined: 15/09/2010 23:44:59
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Hello

I am a new owner of a SL 16.4.2, in fact so new that my unit does not arrive until this coming Monday!!

So I have been studying the manual, and watching the excellent youtube videos, and a question comes to mind, please forgive my lack of knowledge and use of termnology.

I intend to use the SL 16.4.2 for live gig sound mixing and recording sessions for a small band.

I watched Rick's excellent videos on how to edit recordings.

Is it possible to record the band's sound check, use the firewire re-routing to edit the mix by applying FAT channel settings, then apply those settings to the live mix?

Any insight would be gratefully appreciated.

Have a great day!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/09/2010 15:13:49

jspence
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Joined: 28/07/2010 16:19:07
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Hi,

What you are talking about is a virtual soundcheck and yes it is possible. You can record a rehearsal and play those tracks individually into the channels of the StudioLive from your computer. Then you can apply Fat Channel FX at your venue without anyone even being there.

Best
Justin Spence
Product Specialist/Consultant
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hsfinlayson
Presonic
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Joined: 20/04/2009 10:02:12
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Keep in mind that mixing-back your tracks via FireWire in a venue does not account for stage volumes and ambient volumes. You can get a killer mix and tones from your recorded sound-check... But once the band is playing at full flume on the stage, the mix will dramatically change.

But yes, it is a good way to isolate the tracks and get good "sounds" for each channel. The smaller the venue, the less you'll need actual reinforcement in the mains of things like drums... so what sounds good through playback of FireWire tracks will NOT be a good mix when the band plays live. Does that make sense...?
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funkafize
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rickhebert wrote:

Is it possible to record the band's sound check, use the firewire re-routing to edit the mix by applying FAT channel settings, then apply those settings to the live mix?



Welcome, Yep entirely possible. Easiest to use the Capture program as the recorded tracks are hard wired to the corresponding channels on the StudioLive. So record the sound check, then play back the recording and engage each channel's firewire return button. Fat channel it up to your hearts content, mix and if you dare let the band listen out front.

As far as applying it to the live mix when the band jumps back up, you can either:
Leave the desk running to be able to take off from were you left it, or
Switch it off and when you switch it back on the desk should start up from where you left it. This is a feature for when you unexpectedly loose power.
Or save each Fat channel setting if you want to be able to recall them individually for future gigs, or
Save the entire desk "Scene"

Just dont forget that when you mix off a recording, you wont be hearing any of the usual acoustic and amp stage bleed.

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rickhebert
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Joined: 15/09/2010 23:44:59
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All I can say is AWESOME!!!

Yes my intent is to record the soundcheck onsite at each individual venue.
Then playback the recording and adjust each channel accordingly during the interim between soundcheck and start time.

This is great news and more than I could hope for since I can save the "Scene".

I also realize that the sound can change at any given scene and minor adjustments would have to be made probably, but at least it's great to be able to save it, and thus have a launching point, thereby saving time I imagine...

Thanks so much for the replies!
hsfinlayson
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rickhebert wrote:All I can say is AWESOME!!!

Yes my intent is to record the soundcheck onsite at each individual venue.
Then playback the recording and adjust each channel accordingly during the interim between soundcheck and start time.

This is great news and more than I could hope for since I can save the "Scene".

I also realize that the sound can change at any given scene and minor adjustments would have to be made probably, but at least it's great to be able to save it, and thus have a launching point, thereby saving time I imagine...

Thanks so much for the replies!


Not to beat a dead horse, but it may be more than a "minor" adjustment to your mix. The last live outdoor show that I ran sound for, the drums were about 1/2-way in the mix, the pedal steel was NOT in the mains whatsoever because his stage volume was ripping my head off (despite my pleas for him to turn down) and the bass player's rig was sitting on the stage and resonating like crazy, so I had to pull a lot of lows out of his FOH signal and basically reinforced the mid/high transients of his sound.

Now, if I recorded them and mixed in phones or through the house before the first set, I can guarantee that the mix would be almost useless. I'd have to quickly fix everything on the fly, rather than just taking my time at soundcheck to get it right while they are on stage.

I'm not saying to NOT try it... It might work out well for you... I just caution you to not spend too much time tweaking EQs and mixes without the accompanying stage volumes or you MIGHT be in a world of hurt.

---------

ADDENDUM: The one situation where your scenario would be PERFECT is for a band that goes ENTIRELY "direct" into the board. V-Drums, amp simulators, in-ear monitors, no stage volumes to speak of including floor wedges... Nothing.

THEN, that would be a PERFECT way to pre-mix the band.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/09/2010 19:55:01

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rickhebert
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I'm not saying to NOT try it... It might work out well for you... I just caution you to not spend too much time tweaking EQs and mixes without the accompanying stage volumes or you MIGHT be in a world of hurt.


Thanks for the heads up...
My band generally works without a sound engineer. As it goes now, I have to set the sound instrument by instrument and then do a sound check.
Then its time to perform, without a clue as to what it actually sounds like out of the mains.

It's difficult but we have been working this way for years with standard gear and we have done ok with it. People have said we sound good, of course with the occaisional "this is too loud, or not enough this" from reliable friends in the audience.

Would it be wrong to assume things would be better now with the SL 16.4.2 or should I expect about the same?
Monolithent
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Just to add a quick thought to this another thing you can do if you are playing in the band is use the VSL software. You'll need two computers linked together wirelessly to do this.

If your band can get used to it. Record your part for a couple songs. Take the wireless out front and make your adjustments. The only downside to this is that you can't adjust the input gains in VSL. But you can have a full feel with both the band and you playing (as long as you aren't too loud and they can play along with a recording).

I've found the following helps stage volume nicely. Play one or two songs and record them into Capture. Bring the band and most importantly, the stagenoise offenders, out front and solo everyone eles's track so they can hear just how much mud they're creating. Then they can actually hear the real mix. I wouldn't get too wrapped around doing things this way as has been identified already but it's a bit of rambling anyway. I hope it makes sense...I've lost my brain. Rough day.
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Big Joe Daddy
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hsfinlayson wrote:
---------

ADDENDUM: The one situation where your scenario would be PERFECT is for a band that goes ENTIRELY "direct" into the board. V-Drums, amp simulators, in-ear monitors, no stage volumes to speak of including floor wedges... Nothing.

THEN, that would be a PERFECT way to pre-mix the band.


Interesting note hsfinlayson.

We've done just what you've described a few times. In fact we rehearse the same way most of the time.

Drums: Roland TD-10 Electrics direct to StudioLive
Bass: Line 6 Pod direct to StudioLive
Guitar 1: Line 6 X3 Live direct to StudioLive via DI box
Guitar 2: Line 6 X3 Live direct to StudioLive via DI box
Keys: direct to StudioLive via DI box

The end result is absolutely zero stage volume. Very clean sound both through FOH and recording.
Still working out the wrinkles but the awesome sound quality makes it worth it.

Thx,
BJD
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hsfinlayson
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Big Joe Daddy wrote:

Interesting note hsfinlayson.

We've done just what you've described a few times. In fact we rehearse the same way most of the time.

Drums: Roland TD-10 Electrics direct to StudioLive
Bass: Line 6 Pod direct to StudioLive
Guitar 1: Line 6 X3 Live direct to StudioLive via DI box
Guitar 2: Line 6 X3 Live direct to StudioLive via DI box
Keys: direct to StudioLive via DI box

The end result is absolutely zero stage volume. Very clean sound both through FOH and recording.
Still working out the wrinkles but the awesome sound quality makes it worth it.

Thx,
BJD


I would love a band that had a zero stage volume.
I get it, it's a different world to not have floor wedges and amps... but as someone who constantly strives for better and better live sound, I would gladly forego that traditional approach and leave my acoustic kit at home and go with a TD20sx kit. It's a harder sell to my guitarist friends who are all purists about tone.
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RaumKlang
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Joined: 05/09/2010 20:54:02
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rickhebert wrote:Yes my intent is to record the soundcheck onsite at each individual venue.
Then playback the recording and adjust each channel accordingly during the interim between soundcheck and start time.


If you're working without a sound engineer, how about doing a soundcheck at each venue and just save a scene for that particular venue including master GEQ?
Next time you play at that venue, just recall the scene and thats it.
This will work well when you
- always use the same PA system at the same venue
- always use the same mics for every input
- write down the gain settings of each channel as these are not saved in scenes

Even better: Pay a _good_ sound engineer to do the mix for you once you play at any venue for the first time with that desk and let him save a scene after the soundcheck (and maybe after each set for changes made during the show).
Anyway I guess once you've worked with a _good_ sound person, you'll hardly ever want to do it without one again
best regards, Sebastian

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http://www.raum-klang.net
DetourDJ
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As many have already said, the actual live sound with the PA and just the playback through the PA can be drastically different, But how I find the playback of soundcheck to really help is to fine-tune the EQ's on various channels.

I often record a band's soundcheck, then as they go get a beer or a puff of something somewhat illegal, I play back various channels and fine-tune them. Things such as the HPF & EQ on drum overheads, HPF & gates on toms, HPF on guitar amps, etc. Just some small tweaks that might be hard to hear while the band is soundchecking in a typical club, but added together they can make a noticeable difference in the tightness of the mix for a better-sounding show with less low-end garbage and more high-end sparkle.

Playing back the soundcheck sometimes prompts you to relocate microphones too. Maybe move the guitar amp mike a little farther out toward the edge of the speaker for more warmth or closer into the center for a sharper sound. Drum mikes too...you can hear the signals going to your mixer better and make adjustments in placement. 9 times out of 10, you get a better sound than when you finished soundcheck. So long as your changes are small, it usually doesn't adversely effect the monitor mixes the musicians were happy with at the end of soundcheck, and often they think it sounds even better.
Larz Hanson
Detour DJ & Audio
Cleveland, TN
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DetourDJ@gmail.com

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rickhebert
Presonic

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Thank you all for the great replies.

I have read each one carefully and several times. I feel like I have made a "sound" decision, pardon the pun!

What I will endeavor to accomplish in the next couple of months is study the SL's features so I know them well, and then connect with a local sound engineer (who happens to be itching to get his hands on an SL) and hire him run sound for our most common venues at least.

I will be able to study his settings and then theoretically make tweaks derived from them.
If the band continues to do well, perhaps a sound engineer might be a good addition, now that we have the SL

Have a great day
hsfinlayson
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Regardless of HOW you utilize the board... whatever process you use... I am confident you will be happy with the purchase. It's a breeze to use and sounds fantastic.
"I'll procrastinate later"
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