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FireWire woes!! - Fixed - Changed motherboard from H61 chipset to B75
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jonelli
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Joined: 28/07/2010 22:58:53
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So, I built this new PC with some basic parts. It's a Zotac H61 motherboard with a new generation i3 CPU with the integrated video.
I have tried a few different 1394 cards, the startech one with the TI chip on the approved list and a couple others with the VIA VT6306 which is supposed to barely work. They all do pretty much the same thing.
Using Cubase, the PC will eventually hard lock freeze after 15-20 min of attempting audio playback through the console.
I use the same console with the same cable on two other laptops just fine with no issues.
Ive ruled out everything else and narrowed it down to the 1394/console.
I've tried both normal and legacy drivers.
This is win7, I've tried 32 & 64 bit, same issues.
Anybody have any compatibility knowledge with this H61 motherboard and i3?
I'm stuck. Been working on this for two months now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/10/2013 19:40:25

SL16.4.2, FaderPort, S1Pro, Cubase, Renkus-Heinz, Ibanez Guitars, TC Gmajor2, custom amps, Eis Cafe Studios (1997-2000), UNIT287 www.unit287.com
gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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How much ram?
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
jonelli
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Joined: 28/07/2010 22:58:53
Messages: 31
Location: Orange County
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4GB. Tried swapping with two other completely different sets of RAM also.
I have really exhausted hardware troubleshooting.
Let me walk you through what happens... I use my 16.4.2 with Cubase, start doing some overdub recordings through it, (it is also my playback device routing Cubase Stereo outs to the 2Track-LR out on the console), and we work FINE for about half hour or maybe even an hour, doing overdubs, listening playing back, etc, then all of a sudden the PC freezes. No mouse, keyboard, nothing. The video is still on the screen, but completely frozen. Requires forced power switch off/on.
We've checked all event logs, and there is NOTHING there.

I've swapped ram, swapped a couple 1394 cards, but there are only two PCI slots in this system, and it happens in either one.
I have tried disabling all other devices sharing IRQ's (one slot is with USB, the other is a couple other system components).

Now, remember, I do not get ANY drop outs while it is working. A while ago I figured out how to quickly duplicate the issue without waiting an hour:

- Open Cubase, open a multi-track project, the only outputs are stereo-2Trk, press play, then if I solo/un-solo a channel with the mouse over and over, the audio will stop within 1-3 minutes (Cubase is still rolling though with no audio and no meters) and if I keep clicking, the PC will then freeze hard.
If I don't keep clicking, and I just pull the FireWire cable out of the PC, then the PC recovers and Cubase just gets pissed off that the audio driver went away, but everything otherwise is all good at that moment. If the PC hard-locks, pulling the FireWire cable does nothing at that point.

This motherboard also has a PCI Express slot. I was thinking of buying an approved PCI Express 1394 card, and trying that, and if that doesn't work, to get rid of this motherboard, and buy a different one with a different chipset on it.
SL16.4.2, FaderPort, S1Pro, Cubase, Renkus-Heinz, Ibanez Guitars, TC Gmajor2, custom amps, Eis Cafe Studios (1997-2000), UNIT287 www.unit287.com
gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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Sorry for the delay in my reply...I'm a disabled Veteran and I was at the VA getting fixed up...

So, My guess is that 4 gigs of RAM is pretty close to the minimum that you could expect to have things run smoothly... 2 Gb is the minimum for Studio One, and I would think Cubase would be similar, So lets forget that for now... Run the OHCI tool and see if there is any conflicts with the card you have, ( it should be in universal control).

Once we have verified the firewire is talking properly we need to look at any other possibilities

1. Are we SURE that the copy of Cubase is not the problem here? That it isn't corrupt?
2. Are we sure that there isn't a problem between versions of the OS and the program? Often updating to the latest versions of software, both OS and Drivers for the hardware and software is the only fix.. I know you said you tried everything, but that is a tall order in this day and age.
3. It would be a good idea to instal Studio one and see how that works... and if it's Cubase that is causing the problems.
4. Have you tried running the latency tool? This will tell you if THAT is a problem...
5. If all of the above is no help...have you posed this question on Cubase's forums?
6. Is this computer your " do all, be all" computer? and what is the speed of your HD, and are you using the Boot drive?

So many possibilities...

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
jonelli
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Joined: 28/07/2010 22:58:53
Messages: 31
Location: Orange County
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Hey thanks for the response. No worries, I can't get to the machine right now anyway.
I have a band rehearsal studio, and that's where it is, and where that is, there's no internet. I can't really do anything more until I go there and retrieve the PC and console.

So for now, I'll answer some of the questions to get them out of the way...
RAM isn't an issue. Before attempting to build this PC, we were tracking with Nuendo on a cheap Windows Vista Laptop with NO RAM (exaggeration) and a very slow Celeron CPU. I just couldn't run any plugins and expect any performance out of it. But for recording and playing back tracks, it worked fine for the last year.
Now, we have this new PC which I described already. I Installed Windows7/64 and the same older Nuendo we've been using this whole time. And that's when we ran into this problem. Like you I wondered if it could be a problem with Win7/64 and my 32 bit software, etc.
So, we went and got a version of newer Cubase (compatible with our already-tracked projects), and the exact same thing happens.
So, then I thought maybe its the hard drive (a fast 7200RPM SATA Baraccuda), so I moved all the projects to a different drive (an old slow laptop 2.5" drive) and had the same problem.
So, then I installed Win7/32 on a completely new drive, and just installed the Cubase we have, and used the projects off another drive (different from the original) and exact same problem.
Now, if I don't use the StudioLive console to playback, but instead use the built-in sound card, it works just fine.
I almost installed Studio One, and I have both Pro and Artist, but I didn't want to burn a license since I'm pretty positive at this point it's FireWire related. (I know, there's Free)

Now, there are two points I failed to mention, and I'm thinking to myself now, you're going to say "and you didn't try that BEFORE you posted", so I'm sorry! =) I really should know better, as I work in the Pro Audio industry and had to support a custom version of the Firebox for audio measurement software for many years. So, I'm not new to this either... =)

#1 - I have not tried the latest Universal Control. The last one I'm using on all my computers that connect to this console is version 1.5.3. I just got tired of updating one and forcing me to update firmware, then when I connect another computer I'm hosed unless I have the right version of Universal Control handy. I suppose that also will be on my next "to-try" things.

#2 - I have not run the latency tool. (I've made others do this too) But, I've had no issues with any other machines, and even on this one that locks up, I get no drop outs or clicks and pops, so I'm inclined to think that there isn't something that the latency checker will tell me. But again, I have not done this, so I could be completely full of it.

..To add, yes on the drivers for the system, they are all the latest.
This PC is intended ONLY to run Cubase connected to the console for mixing purposes. It's not connected to the internet, there are no anti-virus software programs installed, no firewalls, no auto-updates, no other non-essential services running.

I will try the two things above later this week when I can get to the machine/console. But I'm suspecting in the near future that I'll either be buying another different firewire card or another motherboard.
SL16.4.2, FaderPort, S1Pro, Cubase, Renkus-Heinz, Ibanez Guitars, TC Gmajor2, custom amps, Eis Cafe Studios (1997-2000), UNIT287 www.unit287.com
gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
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Seems to me I remember something about CPU throttling or some other power management scheme that causes issues. I can't seem to find the info but maybe that will get you headed in the right direction. The "i" series intel processors are raising havoc with USB devices...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
jonelli
Prenoob
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Joined: 28/07/2010 22:58:53
Messages: 31
Location: Orange County
Offline

Allright, here's my update.
I checked with the DPC latency checker and really didn't see anything alarming.
The only time it got out of the green zone was when the console sync'd up or at the moment it started to lose it.
So I tried updating the driver to the lates for UC (currently 1.7.1) and it actually got worse!

I got on my motorcycle and went down to MicroCenter one minute before they closed an picked up a Gigabyte motherboard, B75m-HD3, that still took my i3 CPU and ram, but had a B75 chipset rather than the H61.
After playing the drivers game with windows, I got it up and running.
It now works perfect. The latency is slightly lower than the other motherboard but this is so far rock solid.
I'm going to bet that it's just 1394 PCI compatibility with that H61 motherboard.

It's late now, and everything seems to be working. I'm happy now and maybe I can get some more recording done tomorrow.
SL16.4.2, FaderPort, S1Pro, Cubase, Renkus-Heinz, Ibanez Guitars, TC Gmajor2, custom amps, Eis Cafe Studios (1997-2000), UNIT287 www.unit287.com
 
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